Conservative Democracy and the Globalization of Freedom

January 29, 2004

Unedited transcript prepared from a tape recording

11:45 a.m.	Registration
Noon	Introduction:	Richard Perle, AEI
	Remarks:	Recep Tayyip Erdogan, prime minister of Turkey
2:00 p.m.	Adjournment

Proceedings:
MR. PERLE:  [In progress] --but it's not often that we have an event as important as this.  A sold-out crowd--we had to turn people away, unfortunately--and I think that is a tribute to the man who is going to address us.

I had the great pleasure of meeting the prime minister, probably a year an a half ago.  My friend Cunaid [sp], who's here, phoned and he said would you like to meet a man who may be the next prime minister?  And I said of course I'd like to meet him.  I'd heard a lot about him, read a lot about him--and I also read a lot about what's written about me, so I discount most of it.

[Laughter.]

MR. PERLE:  So we met, and I was very eager to understand this man who was, clearly, capturing the imagination and the loyalty of so many of his countrymen.  We had a long talk--two and a half hours, I think.  And I must concede that I was probing to see whether some of the things that had been said about him, whether there was any truth to them.  And we all know what those things were.  And I came away from that meeting and from a lot of subsequent contacts convinced that this prime minister is a man that the people of Turkey are fortunate to have leading them, a man who believes in the Turkish state, in the Turkish democracy, and is leading this country in a new direction.  And for a long time Turkey needed new leadership, young leadership.

He distinguished himself as mayor of Istanbul, exhibited the management skills necessary to go on to higher office.  We don't do that in this country.  You go to higher office with or without management skills.  I think Prime Minister Erdogan earned the claim, in appealing to the Turkish people, that he could run an organization.  He ran the city of Istanbul and, beautiful as it is, it can't be an easy city to manage.

So it's a great pleasure and it's an honor to have him here.  He's had very good meetings on this visit with the president, with the vice president, with the secretary of state, secretary of defense.  He comes here from Davos, where he has indicated Turkey is thinking new ideas about a longstanding dispute involving Cyprus.  And that's very encouraging; it's long overdue.  He is a man who enjoys the confidence of his countrymen.  And it is a great tribute to the relationship between our two countries, between the United States and Turkey, that despite some difficulties and some problems a few months ago, the resilience of the relationship is such that it is stronger than ever.  And that is due in no small part to the leadership of Prime Minister Erdogan.

So it's a great pleasure for me to introduce him and invite him to speak to us.

[Applause.]

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN [Interpreted from Turkish]:  Mr. Chairman, distinguished guests, I am delighted to address you at this institute, which occupies a very prominent place in American intellectual life.  As a leader of a country located in a very different and difficult part of the world, and yet having common interests and values with the United States, I would like to share with you a perspective which I believe is pertinent for regional and global politics as well as for Turkey.

One of the qualities of globalization is its ability to bring international dynamics to the local level and to give global visibility to what is local.  The process of interaction that is now present at the international level places on us the responsibility to better understand other societies and to think with empathy.  The global significance of this responsibility has gained prominence in political and social, as well as economic, terms.

Living in a world where violence and conflict are still with us, we need to understand against the negative consequences of globalization not only for the good of our own societies but also for others.  Similarly, we have to make the positive consequences of globalization available to all societies.  Otherwise, the sense of deprivation and injustice, poverty, and political suppression that prevail in various parts of the world will continue to be weaknesses which can be abused by groups wanting to disrupt international peace and stability.  The most effective source to make societies more prosperous, open, and democratic, and thus render regimes stronger and more peaceful, can be found within those societies themselves.  On the other hand, other countries can also wholeheartedly support, encourage, and facilitate this process and can act as examples.

Mr. Chairman, distinguished guests, one of the greatest common denominators of mankind's existence on earth is the development of humanistic values over centuries.  Universal values that are embodied in the concept of democracy and supported by principles such as human rights, rule of law, good governance are the product of the collected wisdom derived from different civilizations.  Historically, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have all played a central role in forming this collective wisdom.  However, the present instability and the conflict in the very region which gave birth to these three great religions prevent the realization of the vast potential which exists there, and stall collective wisdom.

As a society consisting predominantly of Muslims, Turkey will continue to make contributions toward disseminating and developing universal values in this region.  Turkey feels this responsibility as a result of its democratic structure, rich historical legacy and identity, economic potential, and its membership in Western institutions.  Moreover, these givens also shape Turkey's national interests.  To be successful in this endeavor, we are first establishing these values firmly at home, and we will continue to do that.

I would like to share with you today the path we take and the political approach we employ in our efforts to make this vision a reality.  I call this "conservative democracy."  This approach rests upon Turkey's experience as a meeting point of civilizations, its values, and its people's wish and desire to adapt to contemporary values.  I believe you will also find elements in this approach which you will be able to associate with.

The political party of which I am the leader, AK Party, represents a new political style and understanding in Turkish political life.  I believe that this new approach, based on a political identity I call "conservative democrats," has a significance that goes beyond the borders of Turkey.  One observes that, like in the case of socialism, liberalism, and conservatism, all political movements are going through a substansive process of interaction with each other.  We now witness not a differentiation and polarization of ideologies with sharp and bold lines of division between them, but the formation of new political courses accompanying the pervasiveness of different ideologies.  We have before us, therefore, a more colored and multi-dimensional picture rather than a sharp black-and-white image.  We in Turkey believe that, based on this reality, it is important to renew and strengthen politics and governance through the understanding of conservative democracy.

We have seen that political approaches--we can say that there may not have been any concepts of conservative democracy, but it is not necessary to always act on the previously established ideas and approaches.  We are bringing about a new concept not in an abstract manner, but also in a concrete manner, and this is something that needs to be discussed, debated.  These are our ideas.  And for that reason, very recently we convened in Istanbul an international conference on international conservatism and democracy.  And so we have opened a platform of discussion for the concept of conservative democracy.

Our objective here is to look at all sorts of different approaches and attitudes to find out what we can accumulate from them.  In other words, we go from each idea, each perspective to another one and we look at the developments around the world so that we can learn and understand what we can add to our approach.

We have seen that political approaches which run on narrow ideological frameworks, or which see politics merely as a way of distributing unequitable income, cannot respond to the people's needs.  Nor can these properly allocate the country's resources or grasp the dynamics of market economy.  This sort of mentality either radicalizes or intellectually impoverishes politics when it manages to come to power.  Although democratic mechanisms remove such mentality from office in the end, societies do lose time in this process.  In countries where democracy doesn't function, however, such political approaches harm not only their own societies, but also their periphery.

As a mass political party based on conservatism, AK Party takes its strength from the center of the social spectrum and has consequently become the largest party in the center right.  With our strong position in the parliament, we have launched a comprehensive and participatory process of reform in order to develop our society in all fields.  The success we achieve in Turkey may serve as an example for many countries.  I believe in this strongly.  The last 50 years have shown us that our party is the only party that the people have strongly supported, as the result of which we have 65 percent of the seats in the parliament.

A significant part of the Turkish society desires to adopt a concept of modernity that does not reject tradition, a belief of universalism that accepts localism, an understanding of rationalism that does not disregard the spiritual meaning of life, and a choice for change that is not fundamentalist.  The concept of conservative democracy is, in fact, and answer to this desire of the Turkish people.

This new understanding of conservative democracy is developed on the basis of general principles of conservatism which have stood the test of time.  It also rests upon the social and cultural traditions of our people.  Our aim is to reproduce our system of local and deep-rooted values in harmony with the universal standards of political conservatism.  We are for a conservatism that is modern and open to change, not one which rests on keeping the status quo.

Supporting a process of change that is evolutionary, gradual, and based on transformation in its natural course, we emphasize the importance of preserving values and achievements, rather than the preservation of present institutions and relations.  Preservation should not prevent making changes and advances.  It should allow for adapting to developments without losing the self.  In other words, we believe in the need to reach a new synthesis without following a sort of traditionalism that rejects modern achievements.

Much distance has been covered in Turkey toward establishing and institutionalizing democracy in its fullest sense, a democracy which incorporates pluralism and tolerance, not a self-styled democracy.  The ideal is not to have a mechanical democracy that is reduced to elections and certain institutions, but an organic democracy that pervades into the administrative, social, and political fields.  We refer to this--we coined a new term for it, and I'd like to underline it--we refer to this as "deep democracy."

We are against the employment of discourses and organizational approaches that create divisions of Us and Them and make one specific fact--ideology, political identity, ethnic element, or religious thought--the center of the polity, thereby antagonizing all other choices.  We don't accept that kind of an approach.  This supposition is also the most effective measure against those who try to abuse people's spiritual and moral feelings, including religion as for secularism.  We define this as an institutional attitude and method which ensures the state to remain impartial and equidistant to all religions and thoughts, a principle which aims to ensure peaceful social coexistence between different creeds, sects, and schools of thought.

And we also believe that secularism needs to be crowned with democracy in order for fundamental rights and freedoms to be accorded constitutional guarantees.  This allows secularism to function like an arbiter institution and provides an environment of compromise.  While attaching importance to religion as a social value, we do not think it right to conduct politics through religion, to attempt to transform government ideologically by using religion, or to resort to organizational activities based on religious symbols.

To make religion an instrument of politics and to adopt exclusive approaches to politics in the name of religion harms not only political pluralism but also religion itself.  Religion is a sacred and collective value.  This is how we should interpret it, how we should understand it.  It should not be made the subject of political partisanship causing divisiveness.  Therefore, it is important that conservatism--as a political approach which accords importance to history, social culture, and, in this context, religion as well--reestablishes itself on a democratic format.  This is our opinion.

Mr. Chairman, distinguished guests, we also consider conservative democracy as an effective approach in upgrading Turkey's present economic, political, and social achievements to the level of high standards we would like to attain in the 21st century.  The concept of conservative democracy that we are developing is being shaped by the Turkish people's experiences in history and their multi-dimensional cultural accumulation.  And yet, this concept incorporates universal values that allow it to serve as a source of inspiration for other countries.  In this context, conservative democracy foresees an attitude based on compromise, not only in domestic politics but also in external relations.  Social and cultural diversity provided by democratic pluralism at home will help to develop tolerance and mutual understanding at the international level.

The future of the world lies not in a clash of civilizations but in the cooperation, harmony, and meeting of civilizations.  And if the future of the world is reshaped along these lines, we will also witness the globalization of peace.  But for this to gain acceptance, there needs to be a change in the prejudices that affect societies and how they view others.

The secular and democratic structure of Turkey, a country which acts as a bridge between the East and the West, Islam and Christianity, as well as Europe and Asia, lives in harmony with traditions rooted in Islamic culture.  The existence of such a model demonstrates that, when channels between different civilizations are kept open, cooperation does produce concrete results.

Now, there might be those who do not find this mission to suit their interests and who wish to fuel a clash of civilizations.  Yet, it is possible to summarize the common goal of the people of the world today as the development of dialogue, cooperation, which will ensure peace, stability, and prosperity.  And to reach this common goal, we will have to strengthen democracy and respect for human rights.  We need to attain sustainable and balanced economic and social development, increase measures against poverty, and improve mutual understanding between cultures.

Communication and dialogue is the path to peace and compromise.  It will not be possible for societies which turn their backs on dialogue and compromise to have an effective place in the world in the future.  Countries which fail to integrate with today's world, which cannot internalize universal values and develop concepts such as democracy, human rights, and the rule of law, and which cannot establish gender equality are being driven into isolation.  We have to help them find the right path, and we have to be ready to do this all together.

A dialogue to be established between civilizations will also serve this end.  For our part, we need to take the necessary confidence-building steps so as to build a platform of dialogue and a common language of peace.

With its own stable and successful model of development, its place in the Western world, and its rich historical legacy and identity, Turkey will be a symbol of the harmony of cultures and civilizations in the 21st century.  Turkey will achieve this not merely through its economic and military power, but its ability to make contributions to the universally accepted values and facilitate their dissemination and interaction among various parts of the world.  In this sense, Turkey in its region and especially in the Middle East will be a guide in overcoming instability, a driving force for economic development, and a reliable partner in ensuring security.

Turkey's democratization is a self-imposed process.  In other words, it is the result of the free choice of the predominantly Muslim Turkish society.  I do not claim, of course, that Turkey's experience is a model that can be implemented identically in all other Muslim societies.  However, the Turkish experience does have a substance which can serve as a source of inspiration for other Muslim societies, other Muslim peoples.  Muslim societies have to find their own solutions to their problems, and each country should determine for itself what is to be done as well as its method and speed.  But the time to make that decision has come.

We speak about this with all political leaders we meet, and we express this in all of the meetings we attend.  Muslim societies cannot solve their problems by blaming outside forces because, first of all, we all have to accept our own responsibilities, and we also have to take upon ourselves that responsibility.  On the other hand, Western countries need to be more sensitive toward societies they consider to be non-Western, and have to rid themselves of unfair generalizations and historical prejudice.  It is important in this context to note that developed nations have an obligation to act in recognition of the fact that possibilities and freedoms they see as right for their people are also basic human needs for other societies.

As a global power, the United States has before it an important opportunity in this sense.  Carrying the responsibility of being a global power, the U.S. should use this opportunity well to ensure that the developing world understands the developed world better.  Turkey is ready to assist the U.S. in this endeavor.  We are always ready to do that.  For this we can benefit from the solidarity of the Transatlantic Alliance and from the possibilities provided by the Turkish-American relations.

Indeed, the opportunities and possibilities provided by the Turkish-American relations may have had certain disruptions for different reasons, but what happened in the past should be put behind us.  We have to look toward the future and we have to talk about how we will build the future, because this would be what would be required of us if we wanted to look at the future with a vision.  Our relations in the future should be developed with more substance and common understanding to facilitate the realization of the regional and global vision that we share.  The complex dynamics that are in action around the world make it necessary for us to more carefully analyze the political and social development of societies as well as the role played by identity in domestic politics and foreign policy.

In this vein, to better understand Muslim societies, a more objective view of Islam should be employed.  It should clearly be seen that those who resort to violence in the name of Islam do not represent Islam, because Islam never supports terrorism.  In fact, none of the monotheistic religions of the Abrahamic tradition support terrorism, neither Christianity, nor Judaism, nor Islam.  None of them support terrorism.  And when a person of one of these faiths is involved in a terrorist act, it should not be generalized to characterize the religion of that person because it will hurt the other believers of that religion.  We have to refrain from this kind of an approach because religions are there to bring people together.  Religions are there to bring people together with love, with peace.  This is the main objective of religion.

And I would like to underline one more point here.  Our religion, Islam, considers the killing of a person as destroying the house of God.  In other words, killing one person is seen as though killing the whole of humanity.  This is the approach of our religion.  Therefore it's very wrong to equate our religion with terrorism.  This will hurt us, this will hurt all of the Muslim people.  I think the same for Christianity; I think the same for Judaism.  Therefore, it is very important to employ this objective perspective to better understand the Muslim people.

The view that there is an antagonism between the Islamic world and the West is derived from a misleading parochialism.  There are people on both sides, unfortunately, who are deceived by this fallacy.  Intellectuals, politicians, and shapers of public opinion are well placed to prevent such misunderstandings.  In this sense, we all have to work together.  The American academic institutions and think tanks have an important role to play here.

As one of the historical cradles of cross-cultural interaction, Turkey remains ready to do its share today to help establish a harmony of civilizations.  That the Turkish society is predominantly Muslim, has not prevented Turkey from engaging in a comprehensive interaction with the West and from becoming an important member of Western institutions and organizations.  Turkey's successful conclusion of its accession process to the European Union will effectively demonstrate the harmony of a Muslim society with predominantly Christian societies on the basis of common universal and democratic values.  This will constitute the first big step of the 21st century to be taken in the name of harmony of civilizations.

Let me very clear state the following; in every summit, in every meeting we go to, we specifically stress the following:  Our world today should not be a world where there is a clash of civilizations.  Humanity needs to put this behind.  We need to create a world where there is the meeting and harmony of civilizations, where different organizations work toward this end.  We need to get together in various meetings, conferences, et cetera, so that it will be peace that will win, love that will win, and not war that will win.  This is what we need to do.  This is what we believe in.

I would like to thank your interest for being here today.  Thank you very much for listening to me.

[Applause.]

MR. PERLE:  The prime minister has kindly consented to respond to some questions.  Before the first question, may I just say that that was a very powerful, very strong message, and it was a much-needed message of tolerance.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Thank you.

MR. PERLE:  And I think it was obvious to everyone that you were speaking from your heart.

So would you please wait until a microphone is brought to you; otherwise, most people in the room will not be able to hear the question.  We'll take the first question here.

QUESTION:  Mr. Prime Minister, sir, my name Said Erekat [sp] from al-Quds newspaper based in East Jerusalem.  I wanted to ask you, sir, about your meeting with the president of Syria.  You talked about a more engaged role for Turkey and the Middle East process.  In these talks going on between Israel and Syria are you playing that role?  Is there progress--do you see progress happening as a result of that?  Thank you, sir.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  I met with the Syrian leader, Syrian president, Mr. Assad, and in our meeting we discussed the role Turkey could play as a mediator in the relations between Syria, Israel, and Palestine.  He said that he would be very happy to see Turkey as a mediator.  Of course, we regard to this process, we are going to be showing all the sincere efforts that we can, because we have relations with Syria, Israel, and Palestine, and, as you know, we have good relations within a democratic framework with all these countries.  And our hope, our desire is that these steps should be taken for a greater Middle East so that there are no anti-democratic developments in the region.  It is important to have a democratic basis, a peaceful basis for the future.  This is what we would like to see in the Middle East, and we want to help in that, and we have seen a very positive response from them.

QUESTION:  [Inaudible.]  My question is could you please comment on your country's interest in the development of the Baku-Ceyhan-Tbilisi pipeline as opposed to the problems of oil transit in the Bosporus and Dardanelles and the restrictions that Turkey wants to maintain there to keep the ecology?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Thank you for that question.  Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline, the most important aspect of that pipeline is the fact that it will protect the Bosporus, the straits, the Turkish Straits from such an ecological potential disaster.  That's why we place a lot of importance on that pipeline.  And the U.S. has had important political contributions for the realization of this pipeline.  We will never forget that.  And this pipeline is very important because it will reduce the number of tankers going through the straits.  We hope perhaps to completely eliminate the passage of tankers through the Bosporus and the Turkish Straits, and this is a very important step from an environmental point of view as well.  But Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan is not going to be the only project that will be within this framework.  We have other projects which are also ongoing in this respect.

QUESTION:  Connie Lon [ph], Audio-Video News.  Thank you, Richard, for a great program.  We don't believe all the things written about you.

Mr. Prime Minister, is there more or less receptivity, sensitivity toward the Jewish community in Turkey in light of the synagogue bombings?  And for the Christian community, is there freedom to worship?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  The Turkish people have a very positive approach towards all of the citizens of Turkey.  We consider everyone a Turkish citizen, be they Jewish, Christian, or Muslim, because we have lived together for so many years and centuries.  And after the bombings, I as the prime minister and the members of my cabinet, those of us who are responsible for the governing of the country, our approach is that the people who die are our people, the blood that flows is our citizens' blood.  This is how we view the situation.  Because we have such a culmination of values in our society, our approach to these issues is very different.  We have an understanding of Unus Emre, of Mevlana, and if you look at their scripts you will see they don't talk about this religion or that religion.  We believe in love the people who are created.  And human beings are created.  That they have different faiths does not mean that we will approach them differently.

In fact, the attacks on the places of worship has really hurt us.  And it was for that reason that immediately after these attacks, myself and ministers visited the chief rabbi.  This was done for the first time.  And we visited the chief rabbi, we went to the hospitals, we visited the Turkish citizens who were injured.  They were Muslim, they were Jewish.  We visited those people who were in the hospital injured after the attacks.  Our support is for all of our citizens.  We don't discriminate in any way.

With regard to places of worship, we are in touch with our people, and if there's a need for places of worship they have the opportunity or the possibility to have other places of worship other than the ones they already have.

I don't know if I've been able to answer all your questions.

QUESTION:  Thank you, Mr. Prime Minister and Mr. Perle.

Mr. Prime Minister, how do you plan to overcome Washington's reluctance to see the Syrian-Israeli tracks begin and Israel's refusal to withdraw to the June 4, 1967, line right down to the shores of Lake Tiberius?  Thank you.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  This was not on my agenda of this week's discussions, but we know that Syria is ready to take any steps, establish any relations other than the Golan Heights.  And this is a positive approach, we think.

QUESTION:  [Inaudible.]  The American armed forces in Iraq are predominantly Christian, first and foremost Protestant, and then Catholic.  A Turkey that is modern, democratic, transparent, and Muslim as a predominant identity, I can understand as an American citizen the logic of that as a role model.  But when you talk about this new conservative democracy, it has somewhere in its basis not identifying publicly that Muslim identity.  And I'd like to understand how this model really becomes a role model for Iraq, with my objective as an American citizen to bring my fellow Americans home soon.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, on this point, first of all, there is a process in Iraq, as you know, that will go on until the 1st of July, and there will be a new step which will be taken as of the 1st of July.  And a constitution is in the works.  That constitution that will be prepared needs to take into consideration the traditions and values of the Iraqi people as a whole.  It should not remain as an academic exercise only.  And then there needs to be a census made under the auspices of an international organization, and then there needs to be local and national elections in Iraq.

Now, it seems to me that the coalition forces need to remain there for a bit longer time because the area is sort of like a training ground for terrorist organizations.  And until and unless security forces are there, coalition forces cannot withdraw.  If they do, it may create even bigger problems.  So we have to wait until a system is established there, and the coalition forces need to remain there.

Now, as Turkey, what we're doing is we're trying to do what we can for the physical infrastructure and for the political process.  We've already stated our willingness to help.  And every day, from Turkey, we send--or there are about 2,000 trucks that cross the border.  They carry food, medicine, construction materials, LPG and other sources of energy, and humanitarian aid.  We continue to provide that kind of support to the Iraqi people, and that process will continue.

QUESTION:  Thank you.  Sir, you have spoken of the assurances you have received on the territorial integrity of Iraq.  But can you tell us how assured you are that the federal structure of Iraq, and particularly the autonomy of the Kurdish region, will be consistent with Turkish interests in the area?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, on this point, first of all, let me say that we do not believe that an ethnically oriented structure is healthy.  We don't believe that.  In the same way, a structure which is based on religious sects is not correct, according to our view.  What's important is to ensure a healthy democratic structure in Iraq, and we are ready to discuss how such a healthy democratic structure could be established.  Because otherwise, if we allow for other models to come into play, then this or that element may try to dominate the other one and it will be a very difficult situation further down the road.  We should not be making that mistake today.

The only interest that we have here as Turkey is a healthy Iraq.  That is the most important interest for Turkey.  We do not have any other plans over Iraq.  If there is a healthy democratic structure in Iraq, that is to Turkey's interest.  If there is an unhealthy structure in Iraq, that will always be a cause for concern for Turkey.  That's not what we want to see.  Because they are our neighbor.  If there's a problem there, there's a fire, if there's a problem, if there's a major issue in our neighbor, that may have the potential of reflecting onto us one day, and we do not want to see that happen.  This has been our approach from day one with regard to Iraq.  And we have shown every positive effort we can to further this cause.

QUESTION:  [Inaudible.]  I would ask my question in English.  I would like to know if--what are your views on Turkish foreign policy in the South Caucuses and whether the problem of the regional conflicts in South Caucuses was on the agenda when you talked to President Bush.  Thanks a lot.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, the Caucases, we did not have an in-depth, detailed discussion on the Caucuses.  But our idea, our suggestion is that in the greater Middle East, the Caucuses, the countries in the Caucuses must be included.  Especially if you look at what has been going on in Georgia recently, that's a very good example.  I believe that these countries need to be supported.  And we believe also that we all need to work for the democratization of these countries.  And that kind of support that we lend for democracy will help those countries join all the democratic developing countries.

As Turkey, we are trying to help in some ways, as much as we can.  Of course the U.S., perhaps, should place more importance on this issue.  And because Turkey is a neighboring country, we can work hand-in-hand with the United States so that democratization becomes truly concrete.  A step forward has been taken already, and it will be important to spread that out through the other countries in the Caucuses and the region.  So we believe that it's important to take that area into consideration, and that is our foreign policy strategy.

QUESTION:  I am Michelle Kellerman with National Public Radio.  I wanted to follow up on Steve's question about Iraq.  You've spoken about this need for a healthy Iraq to emerge.  But do you fear that in the U.S. rush to end the occupation, to hand over power this summer, a lot of these questions are going to remain unanswered and that there's a fear of more Iraq [change tape] --Iraq could split apart?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Well, we could say that the waters are murky at the moment.  And we need to clear the water, clear the air, if you will.  Leaving the waters as they are won't clear it by itself, because there's a step that's been taken.  And I believe that it's necessary to actually go through the process.  If that process is disrupted and everybody is left with their own means, then there's no meaning of the initial action in the first place.

QUESTION:  Prime Minister, I'm Gary Mitchell from The Mitchell Report.  My question goes to your rather eloquent descriptions today about democracy.  You've spoken about conservative democracy and deep democracy.  I wonder if you could say just a bit more about your vision for deep democracy and what are the principal elements in the concept of deep democracy?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, as I tried to explain, we really have to take into consideration all the elements of democracy.  We don't see democracy only as a pluralist regime.  Because in a democracy, if it's necessary, there may come a time when you have to meet the needs, the demands, the rights of a single individual sometimes.  That is one thing that we need to consider and we need to take into consideration.  We have, for example, a majority in the parliament; my party has 65 percent.  Now, that doesn't mean that we can do everything we want.  That is not our understanding.  Our understanding is that even if there is a smaller group, individuals, group of individuals, what have you, we have the responsibility to take their concerns into consideration as well.  That is the depth of democracy that I am talking about.  This is one of the characteristics that we should be taking into consideration, to deepen, as it were, our democracy.

In democracies, we talk of freedom of thought, freedom of association.  We talk of freedom of religion and conscience, free enterprise.  We talk about them.  When the time comes to implement them, we see different implementations in different countries around the world.  So there it's important to have a more sincere, an open approach, because freedom of thought, for example, should always be free, as long as it doesn't turn into action.  If there's freedom of association, freedom of religion, freedom of conscience, these should not be hindered, because people should be able to have the opportunity to do what they want, to exercise what they want.  The same thing is true of free enterprise.  And if we don't achieve them, we cannot be talking of democracy.  And we need to, all together, take the steps forward so that democracy develops and flourishes with good examples.

QUESTION:  Mr. Prime Minister, John Sitilides with the Western Policy Center.  An overriding U.S. interest in relations with Turkey is facilitating the accession of Turkey to the European Union starting with the negotiations after December 2004.  The European Union has stated that a Cyprus settlement facilitates that decision-making process in Europe.  Can you please explain to us how you see the prospects for a Cyprus settlement in 2004 and what you believe the next steps to be taken by all parties would be?  Thank you.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, there are two basic titles to this issue.  One is harmonization and the other one is implementation.  With regard to harmonization--to the EU--we talk of legislation.  And there we have the Copenhagen criteria, the political criteria.  In other words, for the negotiation process to begin, Turkey needed to--and other countries also--needed to enact the laws for achieving or fulfilling the political criteria.  In Turkey in 2003, there were four packages of legislation which were enacted, and we have completed almost all of the requirements for the political criteria of the Copenhagen criteria.

This is sort of an automatic process right now.  Every week in our cabinet ministers meeting we have a follow-up committee, and it's headed by deputy prime minister and minister of foreign affairs, Mr. Gul.  We have also the minister of interior and minister of justice.  The follow-up committee always gives its reports on where we are on implementation, which is the second step.  And we're taking all those steps for implementation of the changes in legislation.

Now, 2004 is a very important year for us.  Now, Cyprus is a de facto situation--they also accept that.  And they're saying that a settlement of the Cyprus issue will encourage, will facilitate Turkey's accession.  We decided that we could not be left outside this scope of these developments, and as Turkey we decided to do what we can to solve this issue.  And the Turkish Cypriots are also showing their determination to settle the Cyprus issue.  They say that they are also ready to go back to the negotiating table and resolve the issue.

Now, what do we need to do now?  Greece and the Greek Cypriots, if they're ready, they should take steps.  And I can tell you that the Turkish side will always be one step ahead of the Greek Cypriot side.  We would like to see the negotiations begin as soon as possible.  We believe in the good offices of the U.N. secretary general, and we believe that this activity should be carried out by taking as a reference the Annan plan.  We as Turkey will continue to do what we have to do, and the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus will always be, and is ready to be, one step ahead of the Greek side as long as the Greek side takes steps forward.

Of course, with regard to the EU accession process, Turkey has had a relationship with Europe that spans 40 years.  Now, when Turkey enters the European Union, of course, Turkey will gain a lot.  But I can tell you, the European Union will gain a lot, too.  I mentioned this in my speech.  When we speak of the meeting of civilizations, it is this decision of the EU which will be very instrumental.  Because otherwise, the EU will remain to be a Christian club.  If Turkey enters the EU, then the European Union could claim that it is indeed a union that has different civilizations within its body.

MR. PERLE:  We'll take two questions, and this is the first of the two.

QUESTION:  Mr. Prime Minister, I just wanted to clarify--

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  We have spoken with you in Turkey previously.  Good to see you again.
   QUESTION:  I wanted to clarify two of your points, one about Iraq and one about Syria and Israel.  On Iraq, of course, Turkey and the United States oppose a federation based on ethnicity.  But if a sovereign Iraq chooses to allow a federation--to have a federation based on ethnicity or, particularly, a federated state for the Kurdish population, is that something that the Turkish Republic will accept, or does Turkey want to keep open the option that it will use other means to prevent that from happening?

Secondly, regarding Israel and Syria, as you know, there's the basic difference between the Israelis and the Syrians in renewing negotiations.  Syria wants to continue the negotiations where they left off at the time of Prime Minister Barak and Israel says that any renewal of negotiations must be unconditional.  I just wanted to know, does Turkey have a view regarding those two positions?  Thank you very much.

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Let me give you a reply for the first question.  If in Iraq such a structure does emerge, you ask me what Turkey will do.  Of course, this is a hypothetical situation.  But we do not work on hypotheses, we work--if we work on realities, I think that will be so much more efficient.  What you're saying is a very weak possibility.  Why am I saying that?  I'm saying that because the Iraqi people don't want that kind of structure--because we've been speaking to them.  And we're also making a diagnosis here, if you will.  Because first you have to diagnose so you can treat it.  And the diagnosis here is that if there is an ethnically based structure, that will not create a healthy Iraq.  But if in fact that is what comes about, then all of the Iraqi will stand to suffer from it.  This is my assessment of that situation for the moment.

Now, on the other point, one of our politicians has said that a lot has happened in the last many, many years.  And between Syria and Israel, I believe that many things have happened and they have remained in the past.  Because for the first time in 50 years, the Syrian president came to Turkey--57 years.  For the first time after 57 years, a Syrian president came to Turkey.  This is an indication of change.  We always look at the glass as being half-full rather than half-empty.  As long as we do that, we'll solve problems.  But if we keep looking at the half-empty side, the world will be subject to wars, battles, problems.  We have to look at the full side of the glass, and we have to look for peace.  Because we have to do that.  We have no other choice.  We all have to have the determination to be ambassadors of peace.

[Applause.]

MR. PERLE:  In my home, the last word goes to a woman, and so it will be here.

QUESTION:  Thanks.  [Inaudible.]  Mr. Prime Minister, how can you find the Turkish role in the new American greater Middle East project?

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  Now, this is not something I can definitively tell you about here because this is something that needs to be negotiated.  But I would think that the most active role would belong to Turkey because the development of democracy in the Middle East -- especially the compatibility of Islamic culture and democracy is important and Turkey is a role model in that.  And Turkey is the only country that has the infrastructure where that compatibility exists.  For that reason, Turkey could have, in my opinion, a very active role in the greater Middle East.

MR.      :  Before--and I know there are many who want to applaud the remarks they've heard, but hold on just for a second.  Just four very quick observations.

First, may I thank on behalf of all of us who don't speak Turkish our excellent translation.

[Applause.]

MR.      :  Second, during the prime minister's remarks, I was seated next to Foreign Minister Gul.  And then the questions came, and I kept thinking a lot of assignments have been given to you this afternoon.  Good luck.

Thirdly, let me just say that I believe we have heard today not just from a prime minister or the leader of a party, but a statesman.

And finally, it was my great privilege a few years ago to introduce President Ozal of Turkey.  He was then prime minister, actually.  And if the citizens of the Turkish Republic continue to send us such formidable prime ministers, I'm available for introductions anytime.

Let me on behalf of the American Enterprise Institute and all of us who were here today thank you very much for an inspiring address, for the most adroit handling of some very difficult questions.  You were almost out of the woods until our good friend asked you a question--and you handled that beautifully, I must say.  So we're very grateful to you.  Thank you so much for coming.

[Applause.]

PRIME MINISTER ERDOGAN:  [Presenting gift] This is in remembrance of this moment so that you will never forget this event.

[Applause.]