AEIdeas

The public policy blog of the American Enterprise Institute

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Discussion: (34 comments)

  1. What good is it to present this stuff at face value? The assumptions about productive capacity make no sense, especially where the analysis looks ahead more than 20 yrs. #frustrating

  2. we can never get to real dialogue about what to tax and who to tax until we confront the reality that we current take in about 1.5T in income taxes and we spend about 1.3T in national defense – and we have never made any commitment at all as to what the limit for national defense might be.

    Until then – we keep looking at ways to cut non-National Defense expenditures without ever really knowing – not even trying to know if those cuts will balance the budget.

    We need to cut/add fees for entitlements but it’s an exercise in futility if we do not use a similar fiscal discipline for national defense spending.

  3. mesa econoguy

    No, soaking “the rich” won’t solve anything.

    The reason why is that we have a spending problem (and a growth problem, caused by idiotic regulatory and tax policy), not a tax problem.

  4. Todd Mason

    You forgot corporations, which contrary to the world view on this blog, pay little — an effective 13 percent –compared to their peers elsewhere in the world. Here is that noted leftist Tom Coburn (R-OK)

    “An individual’s or corporation’s tax rate shouldn’t be dependent on their ability to hire a tax lobbyist. It’s especially wrong to ask families who are struggling to make ends meet to subsidize special breaks for corporations.”

    Hey, wait. With a 13 percent tax rate, shouldn’t corporations be knocking on doors begging folks to come work for them? I thought that was the point of low taxes.

    1. mesa econoguy

      Uh, Toad, sure, so let’s have the highest statutory corporate tax rate in the OECD (as your buttpal Larry likes to mention) to compensate for that.

      Maybe the tax revenue fairy will come and sprinkle some revenue dust on your devastated and depleted fisc.

      1. Actually I do not support corporate taxes at all.

        since companies do not print money – those taxes just become like any other expense that’s folded into the price of the product.

        but I do support progressive tax system and I do believe everyone should pay something.

        Further -if not mistaken, the biggest tax breaks in the system are tax-free employer-provided health care, home mortgages, tax-free 401K contributions, and imputed rent.

        1. mesa econoguy

          Wow.

          Let’s unpack that a little more, shall we Larrhole?

          since companies do not print money

          Companies are/used to be private entities. Is that your beef? If so, Obama’s neofascism is not for you.

          – those taxes just become like any other expense that’s folded into the price of the product

          Wrong. That cost –whoever pays it – is an economic dead weight loss (look that up, Micro 101).

          but I do support progressive tax system

          Yes of course, we know this. You would tax everything, if possible.

          and I do believe everyone should pay something.

          You are under the false and incorrect impression that many pay nothing. That is wrong, as are all of your other beliefs. And you fail to specify how much each should pay.

          Further -if not mistaken,

          You are completely mistaken, as always,

          the biggest tax breaks in the system are tax-free employer-provided health care

          Which became part of overall compensation, and therefore reduced everyone’s compensation under Obamascare, to the tune of about 2.5% GDP, as I stated back in 2010,

          home mortgages,

          So your solution is Obamamortgagecare next, and

          tax-free 401K contributions, and imputed rent.

          Thought so.

          Larry, what you want is total control of the financial system, which you basically have right now. Student loans, Fannie, Freddie, FHA, The old system is gone, and your buddy Obama basically controls the whole thing. No shit.

          So let’s see how the country is doing in about 3 years, when GDP is .4, rates are 5%, and sections of the country are in outright armed revolt against private property confiscation and ongoing tyranny.

          That will be your litmus test.

          1. “Companies are/used to be private entities. Is that your beef? If so, Obama’s neofascism is not for you.”

            I don’t think any of this started with Obama – mesa-fool.

            – those taxes just become like any other expense that’s folded into the price of the product

            Wrong. That cost –whoever pays it – is an economic dead weight loss (look that up, Micro 101).

            no more than any other expense nimrod.

            but I do support progressive tax system

            Yes of course, we know this. You would tax everything, if possible.

            I would tax what we say we want – like national defense and anything a majority of people want.

            “You are under the false and incorrect impression that many pay nothing. That is wrong, as are all of your other beliefs. And you fail to specify how much each should pay.”

            Wrong. People pay taxes even if they don’t pay Federal taxes.. bzzzt….

            we have to pay what we are spending.

            the biggest tax breaks in the system are tax-free employer-provided health care

            Which became part of overall compensation, and therefore reduced everyone’s compensation under Obamascare, to the tune of about 2.5% GDP, as I stated back in 2010,

            nope.. this was in effect long before Obama…

            “Larry, what you want is total control of the financial system, which you basically have right now. Student loans, Fannie, Freddie, FHA, The old system is gone, and your buddy Obama basically controls the whole thing. No shit.”

            Forget Obama numskull. it’s not about him.

            “So let’s see how the country is doing in about 3 years, when GDP is .4, rates are 5%, and sections of the country are in outright armed revolt against private property confiscation and ongoing tyranny.”

            why didn’t they do that under the Bush idiot?

            That will be your litmus test.

            no Mesa… only in the wacko-bird world… the modern-day descendants of people trapped in the Twilight Zone.

            I just don’t know what you poor souls are going to do after Obama is gone …. it’s gonna ruin you for life.

          2. mesa econoguy

            I don’t think any of this started with Obama – mesa-fool.

            He has made it far, far worse, so he/you gets credit, and blame. That’s how that works. Good work, asshat.

            no more than any other expense nimrod.

            Wrong.

            Larry has never studied econ 101 (shocker!). Here, Larry, try not to let the graphics fool you too much:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadweight_loss

            “You are under the false and incorrect impression that many pay nothing. That is wrong, as are all of your other beliefs. And you fail to specify how much each should pay.”
            Wrong. People pay taxes even if they don’t pay Federal taxes.. bzzzt….

            ? That’s what I said.

            I don’t know what this means. You probably don’t, either.

            we have to pay what we are spending.

            Technically, no. Credit has been one of the great advances of modern economic and monetary society, but it, like all things carries huge downside risk. You are ignorant of credit markets, and the history of debt financing, and financial history in general.

            the biggest tax breaks in the system are tax-free employer-provided health care

            Untrue. The largest tax breaks are economic rents afforded by corporate (and individual, it should be said) lobbying efforts to protect special classes. The favors gained by lobbying and similar regulatory capture efforts dwarf by orders of magnitude any ability to manipulate tax filings and records directly.

            The economically rational response is moving business offshore, which has already occurred.

            The irrational response is the Obama/far left/your response of jacking up rates. This will continue, and will further cripple the economy. It will continue to fail.

            nope.. this was in effect long before Obama…

            Wrong, again, and finally

            why didn’t they do that under the Bush idiot?

            Because Bush had some economic growth. Obama has none, and is a bigger idiot, with even worse ideas, like confiscating private property at will, and taking over 1/6th of the economy with dumbfuck ideas like Obamascare, which will destroy healthcare delivery. Obama will continue to have zero growth, and taxes will by default continue to rise. This will agitate a very heavily armed private citizenry, as the founders envisioned.

            Enjoy.

          3. I don’t think any of this started with Obama – mesa-fool.

            He has made it far, far worse, so he/you gets credit, and blame. That’s how that works. Good work, asshat.

            Dream on Dumbass.. he can’t pass legislation.

            Larry has never studied econ 101 (shocker!). Here, Larry, try not to let the graphics fool you too much:

            Obama cannot raise taxes fool. only Congress can do that.

            ? That’s what I said.

            I never claimed otherwise.

            I don’t know what this means. You probably don’t, either.

            we have to pay what we are spending.

            we do or we have deficits and debt…

            Technically, no. Credit has been one of the great advances of modern economic and monetary society, but it, like all things carries huge downside risk. You are ignorant of credit markets, and the history of debt financing, and financial history in general.

            what? are you loony ? yup.

            the biggest tax breaks in the system are tax-free employer-provided health care

            Untrue. The largest tax breaks are economic rents afforded by corporate (and individual, it should be said) lobbying efforts to protect special classes. The favors gained by lobbying and similar regulatory capture efforts dwarf by orders of magnitude any ability to manipulate tax filings and records directly.

            whatever….

            The economically rational response is moving business offshore, which has already occurred.

            really – does that work the same way in other countries also…????

            “The irrational response is the Obama/far left/your response of jacking up rates. This will continue, and will further cripple the economy. It will continue to fail.”

            well if Obama COULD jack up rates.. you might have a point but in the wacko-bird world.. facts are cock-roaches.

            Because Bush had some economic growth.

            Bush spent the country into Debt chasing dumbass foreign wars… and was totally asleep at the wheel when big banks were whoring themselves for sub-prime loans.

            ” Obama has none, and is a bigger idiot, with even worse ideas, like confiscating private property at will, and taking over 1/6th of the economy with dumbfuck ideas like Obamascare, which will destroy healthcare delivery. Obama will continue to have zero growth, and taxes will by default continue to rise. This will agitate a very heavily armed private citizenry, as the founders envisioned.

            Obama, by himself, can do NONE of these things except in the loony toon world of wacko-birds.

            that “heavily-armed” bunch of wackos will undoubtely end up doing hard time in a maximum security facility and justly so.

          4. mesa econoguy

            Dream on Dumbass.. he can’t pass legislation.

            Bullshit – he’s already shoved the biggest dookie down the taxpayer throats, ever.
            Say it with me: Obamascare. Took over 1/6th of the fucking economy.

            Say it with me: Executive Order

            http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps

            Don’t give me that “can’t pass legislation” whiny shit, Fucktard.

            Waaahhh waaaaahhhh wahhhhhhahhhhhh, Nancy Pigface isn’t in the House to do my bidding, waaaahh waaaaaaahh.

          5. Dream on Dumbass.. he can’t pass legislation.

            Bullshit – he’s already shoved the biggest dookie down the taxpayer throats, ever.
            Say it with me: Obamascare. Took over 1/6th of the fucking economy.

            say it with me fool – Obama cannot pass legislation.

            Say it with me: Executive Order

            http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-exclusive-obama-offers-new-gun-control-steps

            executive orders can only be exercised if legislation allows it. Otherwise NADA.

            Don’t give me that “can’t pass legislation” whiny shit, Fucktard.

            Waaahhh waaaaahhhh wahhhhhhahhhhhh, Nancy Pigface isn’t in the House to do my bidding, waaaahh waaaaaaahh.

            no whiny shit fool.. it’s the simple truth that wacko birds can’t deal with.

            If you guys actually _could_ deal with reality , you’d be downright dangerous!

            but right now – it’s loony tunes forever.

          6. mesa econoguy

            If you guys actually _could_ deal with reality , you’d be downright dangerous!

            http://www.cyniconomics.com/2013/08/28/technical-notes-for-cyniconomics-debt-projections/

          7. What BLATHER!

            what other govt spending besides SS/Medicare do you have 75 year projections for?

            got them for defense spending and military pensions?

            hhahahahahbhahahahahha you boys are downright LAME!

          8. mesa econoguy

            Executive authority only authorizes various writs and powers within law.

            Name the writs.

          9. mesa econoguy

            With every comment, you further cement your highly distinguished leftist legacy and eventual “retirement” Mussolini method.

            Have you studied him, much, Barack?

          10. mesa econoguy

            executive orders can only be exercised if legislation allows it. Otherwise NADA.

            Of course executive orders are only executive orders of an executive, who happens to be an executing member of a certain body or organization, which exercises certain powers authorized them, of which only certain authorized people are authorized to exercise executive authority, but you already knew that, didn’t you, executive authority guy?

            Executive authority only authorizes various writs and powers within law.

            Name the writs.

          11. re: ” Executive authority only authorizes various writs and powers within law.

            Name the writs.”

            I don’t need to name the writs fool. The law that Congress authorizes authorizes what the POTUS can do in terms of spending money or giving orders that result in spending money.

            If Congress wants to curtail it – they de-fund it.

            get it?

            they know that.. been in the news… but the fools live in an alternate universe that denies the reality that it takes both houses of Congress and the POTUS (or an override) to pass legislation.

            I don’t know where these nimrods came from but like you – they don’t seem to know when escalators go up and when they go down – and why.

          12. mesa econoguy

            No worries, you’ll find out.

          13. you wanna tell me how much of the total budget Obama “spends” by executive order?

            isn’t it like 1/10 of one percent or less?

            the vast, vast majority of the budget is authorized by Congress … it’s just loony for people to claim that Obama is “spending”. It totally flies in the face of the facts.

          14. mesa econoguy

            You wanna tell me how much of my kids future you’re fucking up?

            Fuck off, insipid little turd.

          15. re: ” You wanna tell me how much of my kids future you’re fucking up?”

            what? hahahahahah

            you wanna tell me that spending 1.3T on National Defense… giving full pensions at 20 years to include both Social Security and Medicare is not effing” your kids future up any less?

            you’d be more credible if you addressed ALL the issues affecting your kids future and not just your silly biases.

          16. mesa econoguy
          17. mesa econoguy

            Go for it bitch.

          18. mesa econoguy

            I take it from your lack of response I can shoot you thro the face.

          19. mesa econoguy

            I am completely open to negotiations with anyone who agrees with me.

            – Barack Obama

      2. Todd Mason

        Crap. Now we have to explain the difference between statutory and effective to Mesa. It’s like having a five year old following you around. OK, statutory is what the wife expected you to do last night. Effective is what you actually did. Go here to read corporations paid in 2010: http://www.gao.gov/assets/660/653121.pdf (Slipped $181 billiion through loopholes is what they did.) And thus the corporations facing the highest headline income tax rates actually come in about 11th in the world according to the OECD.

        The solution is obvious. Close the loopholes and lower the rates. While we are at it, we can retire carried interest, that bit of gimme tax policy that made Mitt’s effective tax rate lower than yours. Energy credits,accelerated depreciation, low income housing, foreign subsidiary sleight of hand… The list is as long as a directory of federal lobbyists (15,000). Elect Lizzie Borden to Congress!!!

        And the malefactors here are the Rs, reluctant to make O look good in any way or to PO their campaign donors.

        And the homophobic slurs resurface. Make that a five year old pottymouth.

        1. re: ” And the homophobic slurs resurface. Make that a five year old pottymouth.”

          indeed.

          1. mesa econoguy

            Now that’ not very fair now, numbskull…

        2. mesa econoguy

          Shit.

          Now everyone has to explain incentives to Toad, and 14% unemployment.

          Second thought, nah.

          He’ll figure that out very shortly, possibly violently.

          1. mesa econoguy
          2. mesa econoguy

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