AEIdeas

The public policy blog of the American Enterprise Institute

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Discussion: (29 comments)

  1. Vic Volpe

    Yep, if we do nothing that’s what happens. Is there anybody that is going to do nothing? Our economic/financial/fiscal problem is really just a political problem played out in the fiscal arena.

  2. Legacy of the Obama White House? Nope. This is an accounting of our revenues and spending of which not a dime of the spending can be done by the POTUS without specific authorization and appropriation of the U.S. Congress.

    This Report shows, in addition to our tax policy revenues, what Congress has decided to spend them on.

    So for any given POTUS, the spending that that POTUS carries out – is only spending that Congress approved. The “Legacy” belongs to the Congress – and whatever the POTUS can talk them into – or not.

    1. I don’t understand this argument. I’m the first to admit that I don’t know all there is to know about being President, but the idea that spending is either all on the president (e.g. you’re not a fan of Obama) or all on congress (e.g. you are a fan of Obama) is kind of ridiculous.

      Can someone please clarify, what power Obama does have over spending?

      For example, it is up to Obama to create a budget correct? Would this not affect spending? Isn’t the congress basically just an approval process of what the President wants (so the argument can be made that the current congress is complicit with Obama spending)?

      Thanks

      1. re: ” For example, it is up to Obama to create a budget correct?”

        He has the option of submitting to Congress a proposed budget but it’s totally up to Congress to do the actual deed and the only real power he has is to sign what both houses of Congress has passed or veto it – and then they have the option of passing it with a super majority over his objections if they choose to and have to votes for.

        The misinformation and disinformation that has been promoted over the last four years would leave many people with the idea that it is the POTUS alone who is responsible for spending and in fact has created the debt.

        Nothing could be further from the truth.

        Every penny that the POTUS spends has to be approved by Congress.

        The POTUS has some ability at the margins to prioritize spending within a given appropriation and if Congress actually cuts spending – the POTUS cannot spend more than they have appropriated.

        The irony here is that many of the folks who talk the most about the Constitution and what powers the POTUS has (or not) are the SAME people who say that Obama has added to the debt – which is simply untrue.

        1. “So for any given POTUS, the spending that that POTUS carries out – is only spending that Congress approved. The “Legacy” belongs to the Congress – and whatever the POTUS can talk them into – or not.”

          Unless Larry’s talking about George Bush.

          “The misinformation and disinformation that has been promoted over the last four years would leave many people with the idea that it is the POTUS alone who is responsible for spending and in fact has created the debt.”

          Perhaps some of the low information Larry associates with and votes with believe that, but I don’t know anyone personally who thinks that’s the case.

          “Every penny that the POTUS spends has to be approved by Congress.”

          And every penny the POTUS spends has to be signed into law by him first. He has the option of vetoing the legislation if he deems it fiscally irresponsible. Instead, Obama spent the past 2 yrs threatening to veto anything the GOP passes that would affect his freeloader constituents. Not that Obama has anything to worry about. GOP spending bills always land on Harry Reid’s desk and die a lonely death. Obama has submitted budget so fiscally irresponsible that not a single Democrat has been willing to sign off on them in the past 2 budget cycles. Still, Larry scratches his balls and just can’t find any way to lay any blame on Obama.

          Most Republicans I know blame Bush for spending too much money, yet Larry is such a corrupt stooge he makes an ass of himself denying what’s obvious to anyone who has been conscious for the past $6 trillion dollars in debt run-up.

          1. re: ” “So for any given POTUS, the spending that that POTUS carries out – is only spending that Congress approved. The “Legacy” belongs to the Congress – and whatever the POTUS can talk them into – or not.”

            Unless Larry’s talking about George Bush.”

            Bush, Obama, Clinton and Reagan as a matter of fact.

            “The misinformation and disinformation that has been promoted over the last four years would leave many people with the idea that it is the POTUS alone who is responsible for spending and in fact has created the debt.”

            Perhaps some of the low information Larry associates with and votes with believe that, but I don’t know anyone personally who thinks that’s the case.”

            are you not listening to the blather and some of your own words to the effect that implies such foolishness as “Obama has created more debt than any other POTUS in history” and other similar BS?

            “Every penny that the POTUS spends has to be approved by Congress.”

            And every penny the POTUS spends has to be signed into law by him first. He has the option of vetoing the legislation if he deems it fiscally irresponsible. Instead, Obama spent the past 2 yrs threatening to veto anything the GOP passes that would affect his freeloader constituents. Not that Obama has anything to worry about. GOP spending bills always land on Harry Reid’s desk and die a lonely death. Obama has submitted budget so fiscally irresponsible that not a single Democrat has been willing to sign off on them in the past 2 budget cycles. Still, Larry scratches his balls and just can’t find any way to lay any blame on Obama.”

            he can veto it and they can pass it over with a super-majority or go back and re-do but the essential point is that he cannot spend a penny without their authorization.

            Here’s the simple truth. The GOP DID VOTE IN THE MAJORITY to CONTINUE Deficit spending in sept 2012.
            that’s the truth.

            “Most Republicans I know blame Bush for spending too much money, yet Larry is such a corrupt stooge he makes an ass of himself denying what’s obvious to anyone who has been conscious for the past $6 trillion dollars in debt run-up.”

            Bush did not spend it. Congress did – and Bush agreed.

            that’s the truth. And the spending that continues has been approved by a majority of the GOP – that’s also the truth, right here:

            http://beta.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-joint-resolution/117

            all your infantile name-calling and repeating the lies of AEI and others cannot change the truth.

          2. Larry the Liberal,

            “are you not listening to the blather and some of your own words to the effect that implies such foolishness as “Obama has created more debt than any other POTUS in history” and other similar BS?”

            Blather? I’ve seen you blame the current debt on Bush
            right here. On the contrary, I’ve never said Bush didn’t spend too much money on failed liberal programs, and have pointed out the tax-and-spend regimes of Pelosi and Reid. Obama gets the blame for the runup in debt since he took office because he wanted the spending, and fights the GOP tooth-and-nail to keep it in place as you accidentally admitted here:

            “A lot of folks thinks the GOP lost in the showdown with the POTUS because they did not get spending cuts but what they DID get was PERMANENT tax CUTS!”

            “all your infantile name-calling and repeating the lies of AEI and others cannot change the truth.”

            Heh. That’s rich coming from a congenital liar like Larry The Liberal.

        2. Larry,

          Thanks. Does the House of Representatives have the sole authority to cut spending or does this require Senate and/or presidential approval?

          In other words, if the House wanted to today do they have the legitimate authority to simply stop funding certain programs?

          1. Chris,

            Larry always dishonestly covers for Obama and the Democrats, don’t expect a coherent answer.

            Also, he’s dumb.

          2. re: ” Does the House of Representatives have the sole authority to cut spending or does this require Senate and/or presidential approval? ”

            no. The process is that laid out in the Constitution which is both Houses have to agree on a budget. The process often (not always) starts with a budget in the House that may (or may not) be one the POTUS is recommending.

            From there it goes to the Senate where the Senate may vote on it as is – up or down but more likely the Senate will develop it’s own version then a conference committee with members from both houses will work to get it in to a form that is acceptable to both houses – at which point they bring it back to both houses and they vote it and if it passes it goes to the POTUS to sign (or veto).

            If they cannot agree on a budget (the situation now), then they have the opportunity to vote a CR – a continuing resolution to continue spending at the same – or lower levels but rules for passage are the same – both houses have to approve it and get the POTUS to sign it.

            In September, the GOP had the opportunity to either vote against the current deficit spending or require cuts to get their votes – or vote to continue the increased deficit spending.

            they chose to do the latter: here are the votes:

            http://beta.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-joint-resolution/117

            twice as many Republicans in the House voted to continue deficit spending that they who voted against but in the Senate a majority of Republicans voted against but were outvoted by the Dems (barely).

            My whole point in commenting here is to show the truth on the POTUS spending money and adding to the debt.

            He can do neither unless Congress approves.

            In Bush’s case, he himself advocated for increased spending – for Homeland Security, DOD, and the two wars. I’m not sure if he advocated for the Medicare Part D entitlement.

            In Congress, they AGREED with what Bush was recommending AND they added the Medicare Part D entitlement and a majority of both houses of Congress did approve it and did pass it on to Bush for his signature.

            Now here is the really important part.

            Since that time – no budget that rolls back those increases has ever been submitted in neither house. The only budget that passed the House was the Ryan budget that basically cut entitlements, did not cut DOD and said that the deficit would be made up by increased growth by 2030.

            that’s the only budget (that I know of) that passed the house and it was a non-sequitur in the Senate because they already knew it was DOA before the vote and even if it passed, it would be vetoed and they did not have enough votes to override.

            So what they did instead was vote a CR to continue the spending as it has been…. and it did pass both houses with GOP support and the POTUS did sign it.

            this is the truth.

            You can easily verify it and all this talk about Obama spending us into 16 trillion of debt is just plain ordinary Grade A propaganda from those who oppose him.

          3. “In Bush’s case, he himself advocated for increased spending – for Homeland Security, DOD, and the two wars.”

            Yes, that’s true. He also spent waay too much money on failed liberal programs based on a misguided “compassionate conservatism.” He partnered with cretins like Ted Kennedy to cook up crap like “No Child Left Behind.”

            Funny how Larry can’t get himself to write anything like “In Obama’s case, he himself advocated for increased spending…” considering there’s a big difference between the two big spenders in about a trillion per fiscal year in the red. Give me Bush’s fiscal recklessness any day of the week!

            “I’m not sure if he advocated for the Medicare Part D entitlement.”

            He and the GOP were hectored into coming up with a prescription drug plan by Democrats who believed in Clinton’s pretend surpluses. They got busy looking for a new federal entitlement to spend it on, and then hyped up the American people into demanding some more free shit. The plan Bush supported was about half as expensive as the alternative plan the Democrats wanted to implement at the time.

            “From there it goes to the Senate where the Senate may vote on it as is – up or down but more likely the Senate will develop it’s own version then a conference committee with members from both houses will work to get it in to a form that is acceptable to both houses”

            I love this little Civics Lessons for Dummies by a Dummy. The Senate is required BY LAW Under the 1974 Congressional Budget Act, to move a budget out of the Budget Committee by April 1 of every year and adopt a budget resolution on the floor by April 15. Senate Majority scofflaw Reid has been ignoring this for over a thousand days, but you won’t hear a word of criticism from Larry the Lying Liberal.

            “Since that time – no budget that rolls back those increases has ever been submitted in neither house.”

            Since what time? Federal spending has increased by about a trillion dollars annually since just 2008. There’s the deficit difference right there.

            Even Larry doesn’t believe his own bullshit. Someone who buys into this nonsense could not have written in this very thread:

            “A lot of folks thinks the GOP lost in the showdown with the POTUS because they did not get spending cuts..”

            How could they lose a showdown with a guy who is nothing more than a chair warmer with no input, waiting for legislation to his desk so he can sign it?

          4. “In Bush’s case, he himself advocated for increased spending – for Homeland Security, DOD, and the two wars.”

            Yes, that’s true. He also spent waay too much money on failed liberal programs based on a misguided “compassionate conservatism.” He partnered with cretins like Ted Kennedy to cook up crap like “No Child Left Behind.” ”

            see this is the part you can’t get past. Bush could not do it himself. He had to have a majority of Republicans do agree with him.

            “Funny how Larry can’t get himself to write anything like “In Obama’s case, he himself advocated for increased spending…” considering there’s a big difference between the two big spenders in about a trillion per fiscal year in the red. Give me Bush’s fiscal recklessness any day of the week! ”

            again.. Obama can only spend what Congress authorizes no matter what is “in his heart”. Can you name the spending that Obama advocated beyond stimulus?

            ” “I’m not sure if he advocated for the Medicare Part D entitlement.”

            He and the GOP were hectored into coming up with a prescription drug plan by Democrats who believed in Clinton’s pretend surpluses. They got busy looking for a new federal entitlement to spend it on, and then hyped up the American people into demanding some more free shit. The plan Bush supported was about half as expensive as the alternative plan the Democrats wanted to implement at the time. ”

            oh.. so now the GOP was “hectored” into deficit spending?

            ha ha ha… Paul, Paul… and you cite my supposed flaws…

            ““From there it goes to the Senate where the Senate may vote on it as is – up or down but more likely the Senate will develop it’s own version then a conference committee with members from both houses will work to get it in to a form that is acceptable to both houses”

            I love this little Civics Lessons for Dummies by a Dummy. The Senate is required BY LAW Under the 1974 Congressional Budget Act, to move a budget out of the Budget Committee by April 1 of every year and adopt a budget resolution on the floor by April 15. Senate Majority scofflaw Reid has been ignoring this for over a thousand days, but you won’t hear a word of criticism from Larry the Lying Liberal. ”

            It IS a civics lesson BECAUSE people like you and AEI and other anti-Obama people spout things like “Obama has spent us into 16T in debt and that’s simply not true but people buy it because they simply don’t understand that Congress, not the POTUS authorizing spending.

            AEI preys on people’s ignorance – and very successfully I might add.

            ““Since that time – no budget that rolls back those increases has ever been submitted in neither house.”

            Since what time? Federal spending has increased by about a trillion dollars annually since just 2008. There’s the deficit difference right there. ”

            since the DOD budget, two wars, and Medicare Part D were all voted to increased spending. None of it was ever rolled back. None of it was ever advocated by the same GOP who says we have a spending problem – to roll it back.

            they voted the increased spending and never advocated rolling it back – not even in the budget that Ryan proposed and they passed.

            “Even Larry doesn’t believe his own bullshit. Someone who buys into this nonsense could not have written in this very thread:

            “A lot of folks thinks the GOP lost in the showdown with the POTUS because they did not get spending cuts..”

            How could they lose a showdown with a guy who is nothing more than a chair warmer with no input, waiting for legislation to his desk so he can sign it? ”

            are you saying the GOP did not get their hiney whopped on the fiscal cliff? Have you read what your buddy Krauthammer wrote? ” The Senate-passed fiscal cliff bill that House Republicans now are debating is a “complete rout for Democrats” and ‘“complete surrender” for the GOP”

            Now how could that happen to an entire party at the hands of a bench warmer?

            give it up Paul… the GOP got hammered.. in the elections, in the fiscal cliff and now they are turning trail for the debt ceiling… all because of some 3rd string bench warmer….

            geeze!

          5. “see this is the part you can’t get past. Bush could not do it himself. He had to have a majority of Republicans do agree with him.”

            Nobody claimed he could do it himself. But you constantly(and only recently) make the President out to be some passive bystander who merely stamps an approval. That’s utter rubbish and even you aren’t so stupid as to believe it. The GOP wouldn’t have “lost the showdown” with Obama, as you yourself put it, if that were true.

            “Can you name the spending that Obama advocated beyond stimulus?”

            Um, you might have heard of a massive new entitltement called Obamacare?? He spent most of 2009 advocating it, and it passed without a single GOP vote. Obama also advocates all kind of “investments” beyond the stimulus that is now baked into the baseline(so Obama “advocates” it every year.) Example, he spent much of last yr demanding another $450 billion in “stimulus” to rain down on his freeloader constituents. He keeps pissing away our money on his cronies in the green energy industry. He’s currently engaged in a “showdown” (again, you words) with the GOP who want to roll back the current blow-out-the-budget levels. Poof! There goes another one of your crap arguments.

            “oh.. so now the GOP was “hectored” into deficit spending?

            ha ha ha… Paul, Paul… and you cite my supposed flaws…”

            I know you’re massively ignorant of current events, Larry, so I don’t really expect you to know much about what went on in the late ’90’s and early 2000’s, but that’s the history of the prescription drug entitlement. I notice you didn’t offer a counterfactual, because you couldn’t.

            “Obama has spent us into 16T in debt and that’s simply not true but people buy it because they simply don’t understand that Congress, not the POTUS authorizing spending.”

            What a moron. Obama “authorizes” the spending by signing the spending bills. Would they be authorized if he vetoed them? He also bullies and negotiates with Congress to shape the bills before they hit his desk.
            I find it amazing the same hucksters who try to pass the buck in regards to Obama’s ruinous agenda usally want Obama to spend MORE.

            ” None of it was ever rolled back. None of it was ever advocated by the same GOP who says we have a spending problem – to roll it back.”

            What nonsense is this? The GOP is trying to roll back spending right now. That’s what the “standoff” you referred to is all about. Idiot.

            ” The Senate-passed fiscal cliff bill that House Republicans now are debating is a “complete rout for Democrats” and ‘“complete surrender” for the GOP”

            Um, yeah, no kidding. And what was the surrender, dumbass? It was a surrender to Obama over the spending he refuses to cut. My point exactly. You’re the jackass arguing he doesn’t do anything more than sign whatever Congress sends him. And yet you just admitted again he got his way.

          6. Larry Vs. Larry within the same comment!

            Obama is innocent! : ” Can you name the spending that Obama advocated beyond stimulus?”

            and..

            “It IS a civics lesson BECAUSE people like you and AEI and other anti-Obama people spout things like “Obama has spent us into 16T in debt and that’s simply not true but people buy it because they simply don’t understand that Congress, not the POTUS authorizing spending.”

            vs.

            Obama wins on spending!: “The Senate-passed fiscal cliff bill that House Republicans now are debating is a “complete rout for Democrats” and ‘“complete surrender” for the GOP”

            Now how could that happen to an entire party at the hands of a bench warmer?”

            Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen, for more exciting episodes of Larry Vs. Larry within the same comment!

    2. Sorry larry g your man-crush will indeed have this legacy to keep him company until he assumes room temperature…

      Jeff Carter in his Points & Figures commentary notes what everyone else who’s been paying attention knows: America is on a bullet train to debt hell

      1. No man-crush Juandoze. Just trying to keep you anti-Obama guys straight.

        Bullet-train to hell? yeah maybe… but Obama still cannot spent one thin dime without Congress approving it – and for all the fire and fury from the GOP fools – back in Sept 2012, they voted IN THE MAJORITY in the house to CONTINUE spending a deficit levels that continue to add to the debt,

        Mind you, they did have the opportunity to insist on cuts as a condition of agreeing to the CR but nope, they agreed to continue to spend – at the levels – they established when Bush was POTUS – namely the 2 wars, doubled DOD/National Defense spending and Medicare Part D. Not a peep from our GOP goober friends about cutting any of that deficit spending.. despite 4 years of blathering about it, threats to shut down govt over the fiscal cliff and new threats to shut down over the debt limit.

        Looks like those boys are your basic feckless hypocrites to me.

        1. Just trying to keep you anti-Obama guys straight“…

          LOL! This coming from a proven liar, well it just funny…

      2. “Nobody claimed he could do it himself. But you constantly(and only recently) make the President out to be some passive bystander who merely stamps an approval. That’s utter rubbish and even you aren’t so stupid as to believe it. The GOP wouldn’t have “lost the showdown” with Obama, as you yourself put it, if that were true.”

        Nope. I’m reacting to the false claims that Obama has created the debt.

        “Can you name the spending that Obama advocated beyond stimulus?”

        “Um, you might have heard of a massive new entitltement called Obamacare??”

        did he authorize it?

        ” He spent most of 2009 advocating it, and it passed without a single GOP vote. Obama also advocates all kind of “investments” beyond the stimulus that is now baked into the baseline(so Obama “advocates” it every year.) Example, he spent much of last yr demanding another $450 billion in “stimulus” to rain down on his freeloader constituents. He keeps pissing away our money on his cronies in the green energy industry. He’s currently engaged in a “showdown” (again, you words) with the GOP who want to roll back the current blow-out-the-budget levels. Poof! There goes another one of your crap arguments.”

        do you know what the Bush tax cuts were “temporary”?

        Obama cannot spend money guy without Congress approving it – that’s the truth.

        ““oh.. so now the GOP was “hectored” into deficit spending?

        ha ha ha… Paul, Paul… and you cite my supposed flaws…”

        I know you’re massively ignorant of current events, Larry, so I don’t really expect you to know much about what went on in the late ’90′s and early 2000′s, but that’s the history of the prescription drug entitlement. I notice you didn’t offer a counterfactual, because you couldn’t. ”

        if you have scruples and principles and you are not a feckless hypocrite then you do not get “hectored” into doing things you oppose.

        ““Obama has spent us into 16T in debt and that’s simply not true but people buy it because they simply don’t understand that Congress, not the POTUS authorizing spending.”

        What a moron. Obama “authorizes” the spending by signing the spending bills. ”

        It’s true but those bills never get to his desk to sign unless a majority of Congress votes to approve them.

        “Would they be authorized if he vetoed them? He also bullies and negotiates with Congress to shape the bills before they hit his desk.
        I find it amazing the same hucksters who try to pass the buck in regards to Obama’s ruinous agenda usally want Obama to spend MORE.”

        he “bullies”? This is the guy they called a socialist muslim without a birth certificate? ha ha ha what a whiner you are.

        “” None of it was ever rolled back. None of it was ever advocated by the same GOP who says we have a spending problem – to roll it back.”

        What nonsense is this? The GOP is trying to roll back spending right now. That’s what the “standoff” you referred to is all about. Idiot. ”

        nope. They had the opportunity to roll it back in sept 2012 and they did not. They also had the opportunity under Bush and they did not either.

        ” The Senate-passed fiscal cliff bill that House Republicans now are debating is a “complete rout for Democrats” and ‘“complete surrender” for the GOP”

        Um, yeah, no kidding. And what was the surrender, dumbass? It was a surrender to Obama over the spending he refuses to cut. My point exactly. You’re the jackass arguing he doesn’t do anything more than sign whatever Congress sends him. And yet you just admitted again he got his way. ”

        If the GOP has the ability to not approve spending bills like they had in Sept 2012, and they instead agreed to continue deficit spending – as they did do then how can they then 5 months later say the oppose increasing the debt limit that was direct consequence of their voting to continue increased spending?

        this is the simple truth.

        It’s all kabuki theater by a bunch of feckless hypocrites.

        They want Obama to cut the spending that they themselves lack the guts to do – now or back under Bush.

        1. re: ” I know you’re massively ignorant of current events, Larry, so I don’t really expect you to know much about what went on in the late ’90′s and early 2000′s, but that’s the history of the prescription drug entitlement. I notice you didn’t offer a counterfactual, because you couldn’t. ”

          Odd that you cite this as it was all a GOP idea and the GOP itself “hectored” their own people to change their votes after they voted against it.

          Isn’t this the truth? Didn’t Tom DeLay and others threaten their own GOP members if they did not go along?

          And tell me this How many Republicans since then have come out and said it was a mistake and directly opposed continuing that program – agreeing it was a big mistake – and they want to make it right?

          how many GOP have repudiated that vote?

        2. Nope. I’m reacting to the false claims that Obama has created the debt.“…

          larry the liar strikes again!

          How does that strawman taste?

          OK larry who actually said that Obama ‘created‘ the debt?

          Now what I’ve seen is how Obama added to the debt at a rate that surpassed all the previous presidents combined…

          larry are you a Rex Nutting fan?

          A Rick Ungar fan?

          Personally I think Michael Strain might have a more balanced description of the spending situation…

          1. re: ” Now what I’ve seen is how Obama added to the debt at a rate that surpassed all the previous presidents combined”

            even that is not true. Obama has not added one penny to the debt.

          2. even that is not true. Obama has not added one penny to the debt“…

            Spell it larry g: L – I – A – R

          3. re: ” “even that is not true. Obama has not added one penny to the debt“…

            Spell it larry g: L – I – A – R”

            nope it’s the truth.

            Obama cannot spend a time without approval from both houses of Congress.

            That makes the claim that Obama has “added to the debt” a total lie – coming from those folks who had almost nothing to say about the deficit when Bush was POTUS.

            The TRUTH is that the CONGRESS under Bush is the one that blew up the budget – and Bush signed off on the spending – and that spending was embedded in the budget that continues to this day. The added spending under Bush has never been removed by Congress.

            Every year – they vote in the majority – both Dems and GOP to continue spending at the levels in the previous budgets.

            About the only thing one could legitimately blame Obama for is not advocating for cuts – cuts that he could not do but could only ask Congress to do.

  3. Todd Mason

    ALL of the Bush tax cuts must be allowed to sunset. The justification was growth that never materialized. Choose a reason that keeps your world view intact but fix the problem.

    1. re: Bush Tax Cuts

      perhaps little recognized in all the fru fru with the fiscal cliff is that at the end of the day – 98% of the Bush Tax cuts were changed from automatic sunset to PERMANENT!

      A lot of folks thinks the GOP lost in the showdown with the POTUS because they did not get spending cuts but what they DID get was PERMANENT tax CUTS!

      done. over with. now we try to figure out how we are going to balance the budget with tax policy changes and spending cuts.

      1. Larry VS. Larry within the same thread:

        “The irony here is that many of the folks who talk the most about the Constitution and what powers the POTUS has (or not) are the SAME people who say that Obama has added to the debt – which is simply untrue.”

        VS.

        “A lot of folks thinks the GOP lost in the showdown with the POTUS because they did not get spending cuts but what they DID get was PERMANENT tax CUTS!”

        And that, ladies and gentlemen, was another exciting episode of Larry vs. Larry within the same thread.

      2. Todd Mason

        no worries. Tax “reform” will be a necessary cover anyway.

  4. re: ” Obama is innocent! : ” Can you name the spending that Obama advocated beyond stimulus?””

    Obama can only sign what Congress sends him. He can advocate until the cows come home but until Congress votes to agree – nothing happens.

    Every penny in that 16T debt was approved by Congress.

    and..

    “It IS a civics lesson BECAUSE people like you and AEI and other anti-Obama people spout things like “Obama has spent us into 16T in debt and that’s simply not true but people buy it because they simply don’t understand that Congress, not the POTUS authorizing spending.”

    vs.

    Obama wins on spending!: “The Senate-passed fiscal cliff bill that House Republicans now are debating is a “complete rout for Democrats” and ‘“complete surrender” for the GOP”

    Now how could that happen to an entire party at the hands of a bench warmer?”

    Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen, for more exciting episodes of Larry Vs. Larry within the same comment!

    right. How can the GOP be beaten to a pulp by a 3rd string bench-warmer?

    How can that be?

    because the GOP is largely a bunch of lying feckless hypocrites with folks like Paul supporting their total lack of scruples and honesty on the budget, deficit and debt

    The debt we have – came largely from Republicans:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/adding-to-the-deficit-bush-vs-obama/2012/01/31/gIQAQ0kFgQ_graphic.html

  5. My primary complaint here with Paul and his buddies including the GOP is that when they say that Obama has caused the debt ..

    it’s an outright lie…

    It’s TRUE he has not done really done anything to stop it – like veto spending bills sent to him – many of which got to him with both Dem and GOP votes – at the same time the very same GOP who voted yes (for instance on the Sept 2012 CRs) – those very same GOP get up on FAUX News and say that Obama has caused the debt – which is just flat a bald-faced lie.

    And I do very much object to that.

    Whether or not Obama turns out to be a good or bad POTUS will some day be judged but what is going on right now is just plain wrong because the very same folks who have voted to have debt, say that Obama is the cause of it …and that’s just wrong.

    For 8 years under Bush, these very same Republicans had no trouble doubling DOD and national security spending, signed on to two wars and Medicare part D and did not pay for any of them and Bush did sign the budget that had these items – and these items (along with the tax cuts) largely are the reason why we have a deficit and why we have 16T in debt.

    Obama had almost no role in any of that – with the exception that he did advocate the stimulus – and Congress did agree with him – but the rest of it – he did not have much to do with and the vast majority of it was already in the budget when he came into office.

    And it STAYED in the budget – because even though Congress could not agree on a new budget – they had to pass CRs Continuing Resolutions to fund govt pass the expiration of the budget – and they did just that – BOTH Dems and Republicans voted to continue spending – at the original deficit level and then Obama did sign it.

    here is the vote – right here:

    http://beta.congress.gov/bill/112th-congress/house-joint-resolution/117

    follow the link to the Congress vote and look at the Republicans who voted AYE.

    Note that Mr. Cantor voted AYE – and Mr. Cantor gets up on TV and FAUX news and Twitter on a regular basis and hammers Obama for the debt – this is the debt that Mr. Cantor voted for with his vote on the CR.

    I think this narrative, and we see it here on AEI also – is just plain corrupt and wrong.

    No matter how much one disagrees with a POTUS or any politician – lying about it – is wrong.

    And it’s what is wrong with our political system these days.

    and I do object to it.

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