AEIdeas

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Discussion: (25 comments)

  1. Seattle Sam

    We could accomplish a great deal if we evened up the score a bit by shooting everyone at NCPE.

    1. Che is dead

      That would be an act of terrorism.

      Of course, if you could catch them all at a U.S. Army base – then it would be “workplace violence”

      1. mesa econoguy

        And they would be (mostly) unarmed.

        Welcome to leftist bizarro world.

      2. Seattle Sam

        Hmm. Good thinking — as long as we didn’t use chemical weapons. That could be crossing some sort of red line drawn by someone other than Obama.

  2. HelpThe99ers

    Mark,

    It’s fun to play with statistics, but you’re not doing your audience any favors with this line of argument.

    Equal Pay Day is based on a simple premise: equal pay for equal work. If you and I are both hired to make widgets, and our end of year evaluations show that we’ve both hit the same target, I think we’d both expect to see the same size paycheck.

    That’s not always the case, though, and Equal Pay Day highlights a disparity that acts as a drag on our economy: if a large part of the work force is coming home underpaid, that’s money taken off the table that could otherwise be used to fuel investment and consumer demand.

    To cite a current example that illustrates the problem: Bloomberg just reported on a study published by the Journal of the American Medical Association. In the study, “female physicians in the US continue to earn less than their male counterparts, with the pay gap widening during the past two decades to more than $50,000 annually in 2010.”

    This isn’t a “coal miners vs. secretaries” argument. It’s a serious disparity that needs analysis, because it potentially harms us all.

    1. You know the answer but really don’t want to do the homework. There hasn’t been a gender gap in pay for many, many years and in fact there are many professions where women make more than men. I really get tired of having to listen or read this type of junk from folks like you that can always find a victim that needs to be saved.

      1. Women are actually overpaid relative to men, when indexed to productivity delivered.

        Call it the ‘litigation premium’.

    2. In what specialties were the female physicians? These wage disparities for exact employment have been around for years and debunked for years. If females would work in the EXACT jobs with the EXACT skills with the EXACT experience for the EXACT amount of time for much, much less compensation, what employer on earth would EVER, EVER hire a male???

    3. Seattle Sam

      If I can really hire women to do the same work as a man for less cost, why wouldn’t I hire only women? It would give me an advantage over my competitors who kept hiring men. Do you think those who hire doctors really want to increase their costs by having more males on their staff?

    4. morganovich

      99ers-

      i think you need to go read the piece mark posted earlier.

      women just starting out are paid MORE than men after college.

      they also earn the same amount if you control for children.

      the simple fact is that women are more likely to leave the workforce than men. if they do not, they are paid just as well.

      this is not a discrimination issue, it’s a business sense issue.

      if you have 2 employees that are equally qualified, but one is likely to leave work for several months and then come back distracted, which one are you more likely to train and promote?

      particularly at a start up, such considerations are no joke as you do not have a deep bench to replace and cover for people nor the kind of bankroll to keep paying them while they do not work (which you will likely be legally required to do).

      in my experience having hired a great many people, it’s comes down to somehting very simple: you pay for reliability and productivity.

      women without children are every bit as reliable and committed as men. but women planning to have kids or who get pregnant and or have young children become much less so. this is not some character flaw, it’s just biology and decision making. i doubt very much that anyone argues that a woman who is 8 months pregnant or just had a baby is as productive at work as they were previously.

      wouldn’t asking/demanding that an employer ignore this actually amount to discrimination? after all, what of the people who did not make such choices and are, as a result more productive? shall we discriminate against them? why is it my job as an employer to to this in opposition to my own best interests?

      as sam said, this issue is self resolving.

      if sexist firms overpay men, then non sexist firms that hire the more reasonably priced women will have an advantage and tend to win in the end.

      this whole argument seems based on the idea that firms do not know what’s good for them but that you do.

      that seems a preposterous notion.

      1. morganovitch,

        There is too much logic in your comment. People who tend to believe in the ‘pay gap’ myth, especially after to many decade, will not be swayed by any amount of logic.

        The ‘pay gap’ lie serves just one purpose – it is a superb test via which to filter people. Anyone who believes in the ‘pay gap’ myth, and that government intervention is the solution to it, is someone you don’t want anywhere near your business, or your personal life.

    5. Equal Pay Day is based on a simple premise: equal pay for equal work.

      No it isn’t because everyone all ready get paid the same for doing the same work. Equal Pay Day is about extracting money from men, who work harder, work longer hours, and work more years than women, and give that money to women.

      It’s fun to play with statistics

      Particularly, when you’re going to lie through your teeth the way you just have.

      1. Woman are paid MORE than men, if indexed to output generated.

        Call it the ‘litigation’ premium.

    6. Edward Bartlett

      The author’s physician comparison is specious.

      Male MDs tend to cluster in private practice and work longer hours. Female MDs love to work at HMOs with set hours and schedules.

      Male MDs also gravitate to the surgical specialties which are higher paid than pediatrics and family practice.

    7. The problem with this argument is that the statistics cited in talking about the gender pay gap are comparing the average hourly wage for women vs. men, but not adjusting for differences in choie of careers. It is NOT comparing the average wage for all male teachers with the average wage for all women teachers, for example. And even if it did, the percentage of women vs. men who obtained advanced degrees which moved them up on the pay scale would have to be taken into account, in addition to things like length of career, etc. In other words, the statistics cited in talking about the gender wage gap are like comparing apples to oranges…to have a serious discussion of the issue, we need to compare apples to apples.

  3. Benjamin Cole

    Hey just be happy…in FY 2015 Fort Hood Terrorist Hasan would have qualified for lifetime full pension and medical coverage for the rest of his life, courtesy of the VA, at taxpayer expense.

    A $3 million deal for Hasan. The guy was nuts.

    At least (I hope) we taxpayers will be spared that expense….

  4. PeakTrader

    It should be noted, women are the ones who have children.

    And, they tend to spend much more time raising children.

    That, in itself, would cause a huge income gap between men and women.

    The question is what, if anything, should be done about that?

    1. It should be noted that men are the ones who spend the bulk of their lives at work, sacrificing family time, so their families don’t have to want for anything.

      And they tend to work harder, work longer hours, and spend more years working so their wives don’t have to.

      That in and of itself would cause a huge family time gap between men and women, as well as a life expectancy gap. Due to the higher demands placed on men, they have higher blood pressure, higher stress levels poorer eating habits, and poorer exercise habits, which results in lower life expectancy, much higher suicide rates, and much, much higher on the job death rates.

      The question is what, if anything, should be done about that?

      1. PeakTrader

        Even after reading your comment, I still believe in marriage :)

        1. So do I, but the point of my comment was that you are missing your point with your question “The question is what, if anything, should be done about that?”, by which, of course, you meant what should politicians and bureaucrats do? They shouldn’t do anything. In fact, they’ve done too much all ready, destroying lower class families by incentivizing bastardom, broken homes, and absentee fathers through the welfare schemes. People are perfectly capable of “doing something” all by themselves. A husband and wife team don’t need nosy politicians and bureaucrats stepping in to break trust and take sides. All that does is exacerbate current problems and create ever more of them.

          1. PeakTrader

            Ken, your point is just an anti-government rant.

            Bad government policies should be rescinded rather than “shouldn’t do anything.”

            Your prior suggestion, i.e. employed men working harder for their wives than employed women for their husbands, may have merit.

          2. Of course it’s an anti-government rant. Politicians and bureaucrats are at the heart of the disintegration of the family in the lower economic class. In an effort to make the lives of those who live in the economic classes better, these arrogant, egotistical, yet profoundly ignorant, politicians and bureaucrats made this people’s lives a hell on earth. This is typical of government action. Do you know why? Because of the knowledge problem.

            That you, a person who doesn’t know me or my family, would presume to know what “should” be done, and forcibly through the police state, is nothing short of a narcisistic personality disorder. That you would look at my family and see that I make more than my wife and thing “What should be done about that?” is psychotically arrogant. As if you could possibly know what trade-offs my wife and I are willing to make and as if you could possibly think that my wife’s life is actually worse off than mine because I make more.

            The reason that I am anti-government on ALL social policies is because the basis of these policies is that psychotic arrogance that you could possibly 1) know there is a problem, 2) come up with a solution that would actually takes into account all the preferences of other people, and 3) actually implement it effectively without making the situation worse. You’re an arrogant asshole, as I’m sure you think I am. Yet, you are asking me to select politicians to run your economic life. While I may be an arrogant asshole, I am not nearly so big a one as you, who actually thinks you know what’s best for me and my family, to include my family structure and trade off of duties. Only a giant, gaping, psychotic asshole could possibly be so gigantically arrogant as the presume to know that.

          3. Walt Greenway

            Why is it that any thread that goes more than 5 or 6 posts deep turns into personal attacks and name calling? This used to be a really great blog, but not so much anymore.

          4. PeakTrader

            Ken, I don’t know what you’re talking about. You’re the one whose demonstrated arrogance on economic policies.

  5. Prof. Perry points out these facts under the assumption that women care about facts and logic. If they did, this ‘pay gap’ lie would not still persist after all these decades.

    Actually, the ‘pay gap’ meme is useful, as it is a superb test. Anyone who truly believes in it is a great way to see which people to keep far away from your business, and your personal life.

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