AEIdeas

The public policy blog of the American Enterprise Institute

Subscribe to the blog

Discussion: (38 comments)

  1. Seattle Sam

    Favoritism accrues to those with politically organized identities. White heterosexual males are about the only group left that isn’t an organized grievance class.

    1. Anonymous

      What about Asian males, we arguably have it worse in most professional settings (e.g. college admissions, and no affirmative action in employment)

      1. SeattleSam

        Get in line. Everything is now decided by political clout rather than economics.

  2. PeakTrader

    Perhaps, pro-abortion women at “women centers” know more education for women means higher income for women and therefore fewer children (i.e. raising the opportunity cost of having children) to control population growth and raise women’s income simultaneously.

  3. As American gender-feminists are slowly de-facto purging the males who are not “gender-correct” from higher education, Ive heard that women who still date men are asking around their Universities..where are all the men??? Why are you taking our friday night dates away from us???

  4. To show the gap is closing in favor of women even in STEM Caltech reports that 42% of its undergradutes are now Women.

    1. And it appears that women are also superior in math as well:

      http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/02/26/Gender-gap-in-math-work-studied/UPI-14301361912330/?rel=93841366891883

      last gasp of the white conservative Republican male–couldn’t come soon enough. You can go back to playing your video games and watching porn now……

  5. Steven Hales

    Mark, Are you saying that men are making irrational choices?

  6. Citizen Buddy

    Ten million degrees of separation.

  7. One thing for sure:

    Females have awakened.

    Males may still be asleep.

    1. Rather, education has been made female friendly at the cost of male friendliness. And men will generally fight for any cause except their own group rights, so it’s not that men are asleep, it’s more like men are oblivious. Even though they might notice it on a personal level they most likely will not see it as a group problem, since that’s not in their social programming.

  8. Larry Geiger

    Degrees in what?

  9. Jim Vander Putten

    The link to Department of Education data in line 1 leads to table data for Historically Black Colleges and Universities. Why aren’t HBCUs mentioned in the blog entry? Is this data reporting accurate?

    1. Jim: Sorry that was the wrong link, it’s been fixed now. Mark

  10. booboo2shoes

    one HUGE piece of information that was left out…

    what are the degrees that all these women are obtaining?

    10 bucks says the majority of them are in underwater basket-weaving and have little-to-no value regarding the bigger economic picture.

  11. Mark Neil

    10 million degree’s? Damnit, that’s not nearly a large enough gap. We need to push more women into STEM fields. Just ask any governmental agency on the topic.

    /sarcasm… sorta.

  12. Deep Think

    why was it that back in the 60’s through the 80’s when boys were out performing girls there was a huge out cry making it a crisis but now that girls are on top there is no huge out cry on behalf of our boys? The answer is that back then there was a women’s movement concerned about the welfare of girls while to day there is not a well organized men’s movement concerned about the welfare of boys. This explains why something was done about the gender in education back then and why very little in anything is being done

    Shame on the fathers that they are not standing up and susporting their sons as they did their daughters. Also the silence of the women’s movement about the current gender gap cast dispersions on their claim that they want equality and parity between the genders. If so why aren’t they mobilizing to close the gender gap now.

    Back in the eighties when boys were on top the women’s movement correctly postulated that when one gender out performs the other academicaly they will out compete for the best paying jobs.this is why the gender gap must be closed they argued.

    They have been proven correct. Malineal females just now entering the work force because they out performed mallineal boys in education are out earning malinial boys.Could it be that is what the women’s movement want and that explains their silence.

    Men must wake up before its too late. If they don’t organize to revisit the educational system and make it truly gender neutral as it now is not or face the fact that it will be women who will be making the bigger incomes and since women are reluctant to marry down marriage is going into decline. there are a whole lot of negative consequences for society if the gender gap is not closed but space does not permit to go into details now. One thing we know for sure is that as more and more women are asking the question why do we need men any more some thing wicked this way is coming.

    1. Mark Neil

      “The answer is that back then there was a women’s movement concerned about the welfare of girls while to day there is not a well organized men’s movement concerned about the welfare of boys.”

      That’s true, but you are missing some of the details on why there isn’t a well organized men’s movement. There are two major factors. 1: people, both men and women, have a predisposition for helping and protecting women. No such predisposition exists for boys. You even demonstrate it in this very post (see next quote). 2: The women’s movement didn’t have an organized opposition. Men’s rights groups do in feminism. Feminism controls the gender discourse, and refuses to allow any discussion outside their rhetoric. They have identified the men’s movement as a hate movement and propgated this propaganda throughout every possible media outlet that would print their opinions. They openly try to censor any discussion they do not control, and will go so far as to protest against people who try and discuss this very topic (see university of Toronto protests). And they use a great deal of shaming language, a tool used to control men for centuries, which is based on point 1 above, to dissuade anyone from even examining, let alone joining, the men’s movement.

      “Shame on the fathers that they are not standing up and supporting their sons as they did their daughters.”

      See, you are only willing to blame fathers. You protect mothers from responsibility by shaming (as I said, it’s how men have been controlled for centuries) only fathers. Why don’t you hold the mothers who have been fighting for their daughters this whole time?

      “Back in the eighties when boys were on top ”

      Actually, the current education gap was already being seen, was already trending in favor of women, by the 80’s. And it isn’t a coincidence that education, where feminism thrives and is at it’s strongest, is also where boys, even young children, are doing the worst. You ponder if, perhaps it was intentional. I ponder, how could it not be?

      1. Deep Think

        Thanks Mark for responding to my comments.It is seldom that anyone
        responds.And much thanks to Mark J. Perry for his blog concerning
        women earning far more degrees than men. I have been trying to alert
        the public to this gender gap in education and quite frankly I am
        getting discouraged and perplexed over the apparent lack of concern.
        this is in mark contrast to the 80’s when everyone became very
        concerned when boys were out performing girls. It was claimed at that
        time that the educational system favored the way boys learn and as a
        consequence handicapped girls. So the solution was to make the system
        more girl friendly.In doing so they made the system boy unfriendly.
        Everyone should have known that this would not close the gender gap
        but would reverse it. As to your point Mark that this must have been
        the desired result I concur with.

        The question before us is why is it desirable that girls should out
        perform boys in education which I will get into later. But first I
        want to address some of your comments about my comments.You
        stated.”See, you are only willing to blame fathers.” In paragraph 4

        I wrote clearly implying that the women’s movement many of whom are
        the mothers of our sons are being disingenuous about wanting equality
        and parity with males and are silent on the current gender gap in
        education because this is what they want to happen namely girls out
        performing boys.This is what I wrote: “They have been proven correct.
        Malineal females just now entering the work force because they out
        performed mallineal boys in education are out earning malineal
        boys.(Could it be that is what the women’s movement want and that
        explains their silence).” thus I am putting the blame on mothers
        actually more so than on the fathers.Also I believe that female
        supremacist are not just a tiny minority of women. I believe the
        majority of women believe they are Superior to the male gender. If so
        than we known women don’t want equality and parity with males because
        Superior people don’t want equality with those they feel are inferior.
        Also people who regard themselves to be Superior once they gain power
        always throughout history either subjugate or exterminate those they
        regard as inferior. This means males would be in grave danger if
        female supremacist achieve controlling power. Just look at what
        happened when white people regarding themselves to be susperior to people of color gained control on the north American
        continent and indeed throughout the America’s. Black people were
        subjugated and native Americans were exterminated.Already as a result
        of women gaining financial independence from men they are asking why
        do we need men any more? what do people do with things they don’t
        need? They get rid of things not needed! Don’t think women can’t get
        rid of men.They can now produce female sperm that when added to a
        uterus will produce female only off springs.So women don’t need men
        for provision. They don’t need men for protection because it is
        protection from men that they need. They no longer need men for
        procreation thus they are increasingly asking why do we need men
        anymore? This is one of the main reasons why the gender gap in education must be closed.

        You wrote “You ponder if, perhaps it was intentional. I ponder, how
        could it not be?” There is not much difference between us on
        this most readers would sense that I like you think it was
        intentional. I found out the hard way that you are right on in stating
        “They openly try to censor any discussion they do not control, and
        will go so far as to protest against people who try and discuss this
        very topic.” I tried to publish a letter to the editor in our local
        news paper called “The community Patriot” in which I tried to draw
        attention to the gender gap in education. the name of my article was
        “superior performance doesn’t necessarily mean superiority” My point
        was that yes girls are out performing boys in education but their
        Superior performance wasn’t or isn’t because girls are Superior as the women’s movement proclaim but
        because the system favors the way girls learn and handicaps boys. They
        refused to publish it. When I called to find out why the first one to
        take the call was a woman who refereed me to another woman who
        refereed me to another woman who refereed me to the president of the
        paper who told me my article was disgusting. I asked him what was
        disgusting several times. He kept repeating its disgusting. He ended
        the conversation by saying “Leave things as they are”

        I can deduce that it wasn’t him who found it disgusting. It was the
        women in his office he had to keep peace with. It was the hens in the
        hen house that found it discuting because I was blowing the whistle on
        their desires to see girls out performing males. These women didn’t
        want my letter published. They want the public to remain in the dark.

        Also I have listened in on numerous programs dealing with problems in
        education thinking surely they would be dealing with the gender gap in
        education but to my shock they never even mention the gender gap in
        education. surely they are aware of it. Their not discussing it
        because they don’t see it as a problem. They like it this way!

        Well that’s enough for now. I will send some more comments latter. Oh
        by the way I have contacted the men’s movement asking them to tell me
        what they are doing to close the gender gap. Its been over a month now
        and no reply.

        Once again thanks for you concerns. Stay in touch You may write me at
        [email protected] or phone 603-893-5020 EST

        Deep Think

        1. Mark Neil

          “I wrote clearly implying that the women’s movement many of whom are the mothers of our sons are being disingenuous about wanting equality”

          But an “implication” of the generic “women’s movement” being “disingenuous” is not nearly the same as calling fathers out specifically, when parents would have been a far more effective movement, with the easily dismissable “women’s movement” (with this is not a monolith deflection which allows said mothers to distance themselves from the blame heaped on that non-monolithic movement… after all, you can’t be talking about them, they have sons.). These is why I called you out on that line.

          “Oh by the way I have contacted the men’s movement asking them to tell me what they are doing to close the gender gap.”

          What’s the contact info for “the men’s movement”? As to people doing things, check out the youtube channel “Jonathan Taylor” (formerly gogonostop. he has a website and is a very active activist, but I know him best for his youtube channel). He is currently working to address various issues in education for boys. His most recent video touches on the gap itself, but also explains why he feels other areas need to be dealt with before the gap itself can even have a chance to be addressed. I’m not sure if the generic “men’s movement” contact info reaches him.

          1. Mark Neil

            “… is not nearly the same as calling fathers out specifically, when parents would have been a far more effective movement, with the easily dismissable “women’s movement” …”

            Wow, I really mangled that line.

            …is not nearly the same as calling fathers out specifically, when parents would have been a far more effective choice of word, especially with “women’s movement” being so easily dismissable for an individual.

  13. Boo-hoo.

    1. Susan Nercher

      Yes, Victoria, boo-hoo indeed. Fewer educated men means that women will not have the choice of being stay-at-home moms or working moms. There are already more women living in poverty nowadays than ever before. Saddled with college debt and the cost of raising children, many single moms are filing for bankruptcy as is the case with the feminization of poverty. The average woman places her children in expensive daycare so she can go to a job she doesn’t like and that doesn’t pay her that much. The men who are college-educated and successful will have their pick of women and will go for the younger, prettier and richer women. Meanwhile, children are growing up in poverty and will face unemployment when they become young adults, especially men who will live with their mothers well into their adult years, forcing their mothers into late or even no retirement. A growing number of men are living off of their female relatives and their girlfriends and seeking alimony from their wives. Since mothers don’t have the resources to raise their children properly, there are more children with personality disorders than ever before, not to mention more obese children. Yes, Victoria, boo-hoo indeed.

  14. This is really interesting. I knew women outnumbered men in colleges, but I didn’t realize it had shifted so much in recent years. I’d be curious to see this broken down further by class and ethnicity to get a more detailed picture of the American collegiate system.

    This being said, I find the conclusion that the market favors women to be an overly simplistic and somewhat premature analysis of the numbers seen here. For one, it doesn’t take into consideration any economic disparity that exists post-graduate nor does it explain what is happening to the “missing” percentage of men. All that this study shows us is that fewer men are graduating college; we need another study to breakdown the reasons of why that is and whether it’s necessarily a bad thing. Just because men aren’t graduating college doesn’t mean they aren’t finding work!

    For instance, what if more men are turning to the trades in light of the increasing costs of college? Most traditional, male-dominated trade fields like construction and automotive care generally pay better than non-degree female fields like child-care. Could it be that men are eschewing the costs of college for a trade field that will provide them similar amounts of financial security? Do more women find themselves at an economic disadvantage if they don’t carry a college degree, which compels them to strive after higher level learning more than men? Is social stigma or gender exclusiveness preventing them from entering the same trade fields? Are changing gender roles making more men feel comfortable with being domestic partners or allowing women to be the “breadwinners?” How does ethnicity and class play into these statistics? There’s a lot that could be contributing to the shift in these numbers, so what we really need is an extensive study of what’s going on behind the scenes.

    1. “we need another study to breakdown the reasons of why that is and whether it’s necessarily a bad thing.”

      Boys are dropping out of the education system even before they graduate high school, let alone getting to college.

      “Just because men aren’t graduating college doesn’t mean they aren’t finding work!”

      Given the growing service and knowledge based trending of the economic landscape, education has been one of the leading factors in determining ones earning potential. Just because men might be finding work, doesn’t mean their futures aren’t being negatively affected by the loss of educational achievment, nor does it mean there isn’t something endemic to the system that is turning boys away.

      I find it telling that your last paragraph is effectively trying to turn this into a victimization of women. Even when it’s men being negatively impacted, it’s always about women being victims.

  15. I am looking to see more Males actually giving up in school and thus stretching the achievement gap more so in time. I see differential treatment from a young age as creating higher average stress in young male students; higher muscle tension; lags in mental/emotional/social growth due to more social/emotional distance and more distrust due to much less kind, stable, verbal interaction and other supports deemed as coddling Males. I feel the very harmful myth of genetics in school and society will create a growing barrier between men and an increasingly group of women who will denounce men as less intelligent or immature. I feel the society protected freedom of expression along with the achievements of women may lead to irreparable harm for all of us. I feel if we do not provide Males especially young Males with more kind, stable, verbal interaction and other necessary mental/emotional/social supports (necesary for growth in the information age) many more Males will fall behind to a point where society will begin to unravel and women will be very much afraid of so many angry Males who having lost sufficient measures of self-worth may act out to harm themselves and others to reclaim those lost feelings of self-worth.

    1. Deep Think

      Hi Ann:

      It was very encouraging to me when I read your comment. Why? Because
      it proved to me that not all women are female supremacists who delight
      in the present gender gap because they think it proves female superiority. It proves no such thing.

      Why? 1. Because as you pointed out there are reasons why boys are falling behind and 2. Back in the 60’s – the 80’s boys were out performing girls in education. At that time nobody suggested that the girls were inferior to boys as evidenced by the gender gap. It seems to day that whenever males out perform females its because of sexism and discrimination but whenever girls out perform boys its evidence of female superiority.

      I was also pleased to see that you listed some of the negative
      consequences to the present gender gap. Why? Because unless people are
      made aware of the probable negative consequences to the gender gap
      they won’t be motivated to close the gender gap.

      One of the reasons there is so little attention being given to the
      present gender gap in contrast to the gender gap in the 80’s is
      because back then the women’s movement rightfully concerned about the
      welfare of girls brilliantly focused media attention on the gap and
      how it would lead to girls never being able to get their fair share of
      high paying jobs effectively keeping women as second class citizens.

      They got the system reformed in a way that favors girls which is one
      of the reasons for the present gap.However
      there is no well organized men’s movement to come to the aid of boys
      the way the women’s movement came to the aid of girls.This is the
      reason for the silence today about the present gender gap.

      This is why our boys need women like yourself to help males. Remember
      fathers came to the aid of their daughters back in the 80’s. Why then
      aren’t they coming to the aid of their sons? As it turns out studies
      have been done that show that females get far less severe
      punishment before the law when found guilty of similar crimes
      committed by males. Why? they found that the lighter sentences for
      females only happen when it is a male judge doing the sentencing not
      so from female judges! Why? Because males have a paternal instinct for
      females that women don’t have for males. When male judges see a girl
      in front of them they see their daughters and immediately begin
      searching for ways to lighten the sentence. These same judges throw
      the book at males standing in front of them.

      In light of this we can better understand why men aren’t sticking up
      for boys and many women don’t want the gender gap closed. Therefor if
      boys are to be rescued and society saved from what you have pointed
      out in your comments above we are calling on you to use your feminine
      skills at organization to help Marshall both men and women together to
      now do for our sons what we then did for our daugthers. We need to
      ensure that our educational system is truly gender neutral so that
      neither genders out performs the other so that true equality and
      parity between the genders can occur.Otherwise as you pointed out
      society will pay a very dear price for our failure to fix this problem
      now. As they say it is better to nip the problem in the bud then to
      wait until it is in full bloom.

      On behalf of both genders thanks for your comments.
      deep think

      1. Deep Think,

        The reason young males are earning far fewer college degrees than women is (according to several studies) partly due to the wage gap between men and women – Men who drop out of college or who don’t even begin it are on average earning $6,500 dollars more per year than their female counterparts which makes females far less willing to give up their college degrees.
        However, while women outnumber men in degrees in general, in departments such as law or medicine which are generally deemed as some of the most difficult to complete and be accepted into, men actually slightly outnumber women (around 47% of law and medicine students are female although this changes slightly year to year).

        The other cause of fewer men earning degrees is our societies portrayal of masculinity. Studies show that children involved in activities/studying subjects such as music, art or languages do better at school than people who don’t. Unfortunately these subjects are often seen as un-masculine because of the gender stereotypes so many people (sadly) still believe in.

        The gender gap is definitely a problem and I am not denying this – by the time they are middle aged, men with degrees earn around $20,000 more then men without which is something many college dropouts are unaware of.
        It’s important to teach young boys (and girls) about this issue. however, as I have already stated, the gender gap in college stems from the wage gap between men and women – On average women earn 77 cents for ever dollar a man earns – and the gender stereotypes which have (unfortunately) survived for hundred if not thousands of years but which are thankfully slowly starting to disappear.

        This is not a problem caused by ‘female supremacists’ as your comments suggest.
        It is a problem which is caused by the long history of the oppression of women in our society which is still accepted in our society today.

        1. Essential Logic

          There is a long history of oppression of men in our society as well. Feminists focus on the oppression of women but ignore the oppression of men. They seem to think that all men have always had it easy and therefore, it is perfectly fine if men are ignored and even abused right now in order to “compensate” women for their oppression. Feminists claim to be the champions of gender equality. This means that they should do more to encourage men to pursue more college degrees since they are lagging behind. Society benefits as a result.

          1. Essential logic,
            I’d be interested to hear about this long history of make oppression. As far as I’m aware there has never been a time in which men were not viewed as equal or superior to woman but I could well be wrong about this. Please correct me if I am.

            Perhaps there a a few women who believe that it’s “fine if men are ignored and even abused right now in order to ‘compensate’ women for their oppression”. However, there are not many women who hold this opinion. It’s similar to the way that most men do not believe women are inferior. The very few men and women who believe people of a different gender are inferior to them are in my opinion incorrect.

            Deep think,
            First of all I would like to point out that the percentage of male 18-24 year old university students is equal to the percentage of female 18-24 year of students, or at least it was in the USA in 2012, I doubt things have changed all that much in that time. The gap is primarily due to the fact that fewer older males are enrolling in university courses than females.

            While more women start businesses than men, most of these are micro-businesses. Men dominate the top executive jobs in almost all area. In 2012, only 8% of women held executive managing jobs in the top 200 companies.

            I’d be interested to know if YOU treated the gender gap as a crisis in the eighties.

            “Back then when boys excelled over girls the feminist rightly argued that when one gender out performs the other in education they will out compete for the best highest paying jobs.” – This is true to some extent however men still dominate the highest paying jobs. In 2013 only 138 of the worlds billionaires were women according to Forbes (that’s 138 out of 1,426).

            While girls are currently earning more degrees than boys they still end up in lower paying jobs.

            “what you conveniently fail to mention is that malinneal women just now entering the workforce are out earning their male counterparts”

            I’m assuming that you are referring to millennial women, please correct me if I’m wrong.
            While it’s true that women entering the work force on average earn more than men in many US cities, this gap shrinks and then reverses (men start earning more) as these people get older, change jobs and get promoted etc.
            In ten years time the same men will be out earning the same women by a larger margin.

            “If those (stereotypes) existed in education then why are girls excelling over boys?”

            I explained this in my previous comment.
            Studies show that children involved in activities/studying subjects such as music, art or languages do better at school than people who don’t. Unfortunately these subjects are often seen as feminine because of the gender stereotypes so many people (sadly) still believe in. This results in fewer boys choosing to take these classes.

            “I personally believe there is a conspiracy to put women on top in this country and around the world.”

            I find it surprising that your think that. I’m not sure which country you’re from but only 20 US senators are female,
            in the 100 top grossing movies of 2012 only 28.4% of speaking roles went to women, women around the world are being blamed for being assaulted, in many countries women have almost no property rights, in Saudi Arabia women aren’t even allowed to drive, the UK still doesn’t allow women to fight on the front line, in parts of Pakistan during Ramadan women are not allowed to shop without a male companion such as a brother. Do you stand up for these issues as you have against the gender gap in universities?

            “Because they feel they can control women leaders
            better than male leaders and world domination is their goal.”

            The fact that people still believe women are easier to control than men is just another example of sexism.

        2. Deep Think

          This is in response to Serena:

          Hi Serena:
          Thank you for responding to my comments on the gender gap in
          education. My comments were primarily focused on the gender gap in
          education.It is undeniable that females are out performing males in
          education from K -12 with far more girls on the honor rolls.Far more
          girls getting awards.Far more girls going to college.Far more girls
          graduating with degrees. And far more female start up businesses than
          males.

          You say I am suggesting that the reason for the gender gap is because
          women think they deserve to out perform males because they are flat
          out Superior to males. So let me tell you why I believe the gender gap
          is caused by female supremacist. First off why aren’t women organizing
          to close the gender gap today the way they did back in the eighties
          when males were out performing females? At that time the whole country
          treated the gender gap in education as a crisis. So why aren’t these
          women considering it a crisis when our boys are falling behind?

          Back then when boys excelled over girls the feminist rightly argued
          that when one gender out performs the other in education they will out
          compete for the best highest paying jobs. Therefor the gender gap must
          be closed so that neither gender has an advantage over the other.

          Well if that was true back then why isn’t it just as true today? If
          feminist really wanted equality and parity of the genders as they
          claim then they should be drawing every body’s attention towards the
          present gender gap the way they did when boys out performed girls.
          but, they are strangely silent!There is hardly any mention of the
          current gender gap in education. It can’t be because they don’t know
          there is a gender gap.Then why the lack of concern?

          Could it be because they secretly like it when girls excel over boys
          otherwise they would be mobilizing society the way they did in the
          eighties?

          Every feminist always and make no mistake although you will deny it
          you are a female supremacist point out that
          as you wrote” On average women earn 77 cents for ever dollar a man
          earns – and the gender stereotypes which have (unfortunately) survived
          for hundred if not thousands of years but which are thankfully slowly
          starting to disappear”.

          But what you conveniently fail to mention is that malinneal women just
          now entering the workforce are out earning their male
          counterparts.This is precisely what feminist predicted would happen
          when one gender out performs the other.

          Thus women’s silence over the present gender gap in education is
          evidence that they are silent because they like it as I charge when
          females excel over males. When males excel over girls feminist like
          yourself always claim it is because as you wrote,”gender stereotypes
          which have (unfortunately) survived for hundred if not thousands of
          years but which are thankfully slowly starting to disappear”.I admit
          there is some truth to what you say but this has nothing to do with
          the gender gap in education which I am primarily focusing on.If those
          (stereotypes) existed in education then why are girls excelling over
          boys? Certainly these alleged stereotypes are having no adverse effect
          in education>

          However when females excel over boys its proof of female superiority.

          For more evidence that feminist think females are Superior read Dee
          Dee Myer’s book “Why women should rule the World or, Hanna Rosin’s
          article in the Atlantic Monthly “The End Of Men”. Or better yet read
          “HardWired by the queen of female supremacist Alexia Park’s book in
          which she claims only women are hardwired to have the particular 10
          character traits to be great leaders. If her claims were true than the
          world has never had a truly great male leader and all future companies
          or businesses will only hire female leaders because the best man for
          the job would always be a woman.

          I personally believe there is a conspiracy to put women on top in this
          country and around the world. Why because I wrote the secretary of
          education Arnie DuCan asking him if he was doing anything about the
          gender gap in education. I got no response. I wrote a letter to the
          editor in a local news paper in N.H. about the gender gap in education
          and they refused to publish it. I contacted a guidance counselor in
          education and while not denying that there is a gender gap in
          education he none the less didn’t want to discuss it.

          Who would want to put women on top? Female supremacist and the elites.
          Why the Elites? Because they feel they can control women leaders
          better than male leaders and world domination is their goal.

          Deep Think

  16. Clarenciar

    Serena:

    You typed: “As far as I’m aware there has never been a time in which men were not viewed as equal or superior to woman but I could well be wrong about this.” How about black men for one example? Black men were considered inferior to white women. How about working class and poor men? The ones who worked in the fields, in the factories, on ships, digging ditches, working in slaughterhouses, wounded or even dying in battle? How about the fact that there are more homeless men, more men in prison, more men in mental institutions, more men who are convicted or crimes they didn’t commit? How about the fact that most social welfare programs tend to ignore men and have for well over a century? Men are also more likely to be the victims of a violent crime and if you include the male prison population, are more likely to be raped. The vast majority of men are not at the top earning the high salaries and making all of the decisions. Yes, there may be more men at the top but there is a LOT more at the bottom. No one cares about the men at the bottom. But then, feminists today don’t care about the women at the bottom either. It’s all about getting more women into the corporate and political boardrooms but not about the working class.

    1. “How about black men for one example?” – While it’s true that black men were sen as inferior to white women, this was an issue of racism, not sexism. White men were seen as superior to white women, black men were seen as superior to black women. Racism is clearly just as bad as sexism but isn’t really relevant to this topic.

      “How about working class and poor men? The ones who worked in the fields, in the factories, on ships, digging ditches, working in slaughterhouses, wounded or even dying in battle?” – yes, working class men were seen as below upper class people but they were still seen as superior to their wives and the wives of men in similar situations.

      “more men in prison, more men in mental institutions, more men who are convicted or crimes they didn’t commit?” – Yes, there are more men in prison. Men are more likely to commit crimes than women, particularly violent crimes.
      While there are more men in mental institutions, on average rates of mental disorders are pretty much equal between genders. However men are more than twice as likely to become alcohol/drug dependent while women are far more likely to develop an eating disorder (partially due to the portrayal of women in the media) or anxiety. However men are often more willing to talk about things like alcohol dependence with their doctors.

      “more men who are convicted or crimes they didn’t commit?” – Men are more likely to commit crimes than women so it makes sense that more men would be convicted but I think the police should be certain that the person they are convicting committed the crime.

      “Men are also more likely to be the victims of a violent crime and if you include the male prison population, are more likely to be raped” – This is only true in the US, not world wide. It shows a big problem with the US prison system.

      “Yes, there may be more men at the top but there is a LOT more at the bottom.” – Obviously there are fewer people in higher paid jobs than lower paid ones but there are actually more women living in poverty than men.

      “It’s all about getting more women into the corporate and political boardrooms but not about the working class.” – Clearly not true.

      1. Clarenciar

        Serena,

        You write letters and post on blogs? Not really standing up for issues. If you are unable to stand up for issues, you shouldn’t demand others to do so. How can you donate to charities when you are only 15? Where do you get your money? Your parents are funding it?

        According to you, if men don’t have property rights, that’s not really oppression against men unless it is a nation in which men have fewer property rights than women?

        When boys are forced to fight in wars, it is sexist against women according to you? So girls should be forced to fight in wars instead of boys so then that would be sexist against men? Well, following your logic, I guess if women are not paid as much as men are, it is really sexist against men because women are willing to do the same job that men do for less money, thereby taking jobs away from men.

        So when men oppress men, it’s really the men’s fault? The point is, the laws in Saudi Arabia hurt men too. And that’s why if a man has no money, he will not be able to marry because he can’t be a proper male guardian.

        In those countries (which you haven’t named), where men and women are equal in the political area, it’s probably because the women there vote for other women. But in the U.S., there are fewer female senators and governors because women don’t vote for them or support them. Women have controlled the vote in the U.S. since the late 1950s and they control the wealth as well. The feminist organizations have a lot of clout and money. So ask them why they don’t vote and support more women in office.

        All the people you know prefer to see movies in which there are equal numbers of men and women? Who, other 15-year-olds? I didn’t know people count the number of men and women in movies and claim that there are not enough women. In Sex and the City (the TV show and the movie), the women were the center of the program. So, they should have given the men more screen time? Then again, the media constantly shows men as being incompetent idiots. Do the people you know believe that men should be portrayed in a more favorable light?

        It is true that women initiate abuse first and studies have proven that for years.

        You asked in what cases men were considered inferior and I mentioned that black men and poor men were considered inferior to women. You said racism is irrelevant. I don’t why as I was answering your question. And black men were not necessarily considered superior to black women as black men were more likely to be lynched and beaten when compared to black women. Considering the fact that social services always favored women and tended to ignore men, it would seem that men were seen as being more expendable than women. That hardly makes them superior.

        You say that there are more men in prison because they commit more crimes. Okay, then maybe men make more money than women do because men work longer hours and take more risks with their careers when compared to women. Women may not be interested in working for years at difficult jobs because they want to pursue other interests. Having a career is one thing, but being a work slave for years is another.

        Actually, men in prison are more likely to be raped world-wide as well. It’s not talked about because people don’t have sympathy for men in prison. However, when you consider the fact that many men in prison are not there for committing violent crimes; they are imprisoned for political reasons, drug possession, stealing money and/or food, failure to pay taxes and fines, organizing and speaking out against oppression, illegal immigration, violating religious laws, etc. you realize that more people should do something about the situation.

        There may be more women living in poverty than men, but women tend to receive more social services and welfare from the government while men usually don’t receive as many of these benefits. Many men drop off the radar (homelessness), because society cares less about them.

        Yes, the feminist movement is more about getting women into the corporate and political board rooms. I don’t see that many feminists involved in obtaining more pay raises and benefits for working class men and women. In many parts of the nation, such as Chicago, tenure is being weakened and even eliminated. Considering that 92 percent of the teachers in Chicago are women, why isn’t the feminist movement doing more to stop the weakening of tenure for teachers? Why aren’t they doing more to help nannies, waitresses, maids? Why aren’t they pushing for more universal child care and universal health care? I hear some rhetoric here and there but nothing else. Why aren’t they pushing for more joint custody between men and women; in fact, they fight against it when it comes up in the legislature.

        Face it, feminism has become too elite.

    2. “How about black men for one example?” – While it’s true that black men were seen as inferior to white women, this was an issue of racism, not sexism. White men were seen as superior to white women, black men were seen as superior to black women. Racism is clearly just as bad as sexism but isn’t really relevant to this topic.

      “How about working class and poor men? The ones who worked in the fields, in the factories, on ships, digging ditches, working in slaughterhouses, wounded or even dying in battle?” – yes, working class men were seen as below upper class people but they were still seen as superior to their wives and the wives of men in similar situations.

      “more men in prison, more men in mental institutions, more men who are convicted or crimes they didn’t commit?” – Yes, there are more men in prison. Men are more likely to commit crimes than women, particularly violent crimes.
      While there are more men in mental institutions, on average rates of mental disorders are pretty much equal between genders. However men are more than twice as likely to become alcohol/drug dependent while women are far more likely to develop an eating disorder (partially due to the portrayal of women in the media) or anxiety. However men are often more willing to talk about things like alcohol dependence with their doctors.

      “more men who are convicted or crimes they didn’t commit?” – Men are more likely to commit crimes than women so it makes sense that more men would be convicted but I think the police should be certain that the person they are convicting committed the crime.

      “Men are also more likely to be the victims of a violent crime and if you include the male prison population, are more likely to be raped” – This is only true in the US, not world wide. It shows a big problem with the US prison system.

      “Yes, there may be more men at the top but there is a LOT more at the bottom.” – Obviously there are fewer people in higher paid jobs than lower paid ones but there are actually more women living in poverty than men.

      “It’s all about getting more women into the corporate and political boardrooms but not about the working class.” – Clearly not true.

  17. Clarenciar

    Serena, you typed:

    “in the 100 top grossing movies of 2012 only 28.4% of speaking roles went to women, women around the world are being blamed for being assaulted, in many countries women have almost no property rights, in Saudi Arabia women aren’t even allowed to drive, the UK still doesn’t allow women to fight on the front line, in parts of Pakistan during Ramadan women are not allowed to shop without a male companion such as a brother. Do you stand up for these issues as you have against the gender gap in universities?”

    Serena, are you standing up for these issues? Have you gone to Saudi Arabia and asked them to change the laws?

    Did you also know that many men around the world have no property rights? Do you know that young boys and men are often forced to fight in wars they don’t believe in or even understand? Do you know that in Africa, when men are raped they are called “Bush Women” and men and women don’t want anything to do with these men? Do you also know that in Saudi Arabia, men bear the responsibility of taking care of their women so if a woman want to go shopping, the man must drive her around? If the kid has a problem at school, it is the man who must go. Yet, if a man is sick and needs to go to the doctor or the hospital, his wife can’t drive him there. In the Middle East, women often expect the man to provide them with a nice place to live and some money and if a man can’t afford that, he will not get married. So many men in the Middle East are unemployed or underemployed and cannot get married.

    And the reason why there are not that many women in the U.S. who are senators and governors is because women don’t vote for them? Women vote more often than men according to ABC. Also, the reason why there may not be that many speaking parts in movies for women is because women don’t care to see other women in them – they insist on seeing men. Women comprise a larger proportion of movie-goers according to MPAA stats.

    Men tend to be blamed for assault in most domestic abuse cases even when the women are more likely to have initiated the abuse. Do you speak out on these issues?

    “Fourteen centuries ago, Islam instructed children that respecting their mothers would guarantee them a path for salvation. Islam also gave women rights of inheritance, provided equal opportunities for men and women in spiritual advancement, commanded men to take care of women both financially and emotionally and encouraged all to pursue education — regardless of their gender.” Daily Illini.

    Can’t just blame men for everything.

  18. “Serena, are you standing up for these issues? Have you gone to Saudi Arabia and asked them to change the laws?” – I contribute as much as I can, I write letters, donate to charities dedicated to these causes, organize school fundraisers etc… Unfortunately I’m 15 and so I can’t afford to go to these places and am also legally required to attend school so can’t get a full time job to pay for tickets. I do plan on traveling to these places as an adult.

    “Did you also know that many men around the world have no property rights?” – No, I wasn’t aware of this, in which countries do men have fewer property rights than women?

    “Do you know that young boys and men are often forced to fight in wars they don’t believe in or even understand?” – This is true, Obviously children shouldn’t be forced to fight. The reason more boys are forced to fight is girls are seen as less able than boys in many countries and so it’s thought that boys would be better soldiers. Again, this comes down to sexism against women.

    ” Do you also know that in Saudi Arabia, men bear the responsibility of taking care of their women so if a woman want to go shopping, the man must drive her around? If the kid has a problem at school, it is the man who must go. Yet, if a man is sick and needs to go to the doctor or the hospital, his wife can’t drive him there. In the Middle East, women often expect the man to provide them with a nice place to live and some money and if a man can’t afford that, he will not get married.” – In Saudi Arabia women are seen almost like a mans property. They need a mans permission to go to travel, open a bank account, work (they are work only in places where they serve other women exclusively), or even get medical treatment and they are often forbidden to interact in any way with men who are not family members. While it’s true that women rely on men to drive them places and provide for them, this wasn’t by choice. Who do you think made these laws? It certainly wasn’t the women.

    “And the reason why there are not that many women in the U.S. who are senators and governors is because women don’t vote for them” – If that was the case then there would not be any countries with equal numbers of men and women in this area (there are countries where the number of men and women is equal) and male and female candidates do equally well in the polls and fundraising. However, men are more likely to get support from others in politics.

    “Also, the reason why there may not be that many speaking parts in movies for women is because women don’t care to see other women in them – they insist on seeing men.” – It just isn’t true that women would rather see men in films or that they ‘insist on seeing men’. All the women/girls I know would much prefer to see a film with equal numbers of men and women, in fact all the PEOPLE I know, not just the females, would rather see a film with equal number of each gender.

    “the women are more likely to have initiated the abuse” – This isn’t true. It is however true that while women are more likely to be violently abused or even killed by a partner, they are also more likely to avoid a jail sentence than men. Women are seen as being weaker than men and so often in these cases people think “oh, she’s a woman, she couldn’t possibly have abused that man who is bigger than her”. Yet again, an issue which could be improved if gender stereotypes didn’t exist. I stand up for these issues by fundraising, speaking in school assemblies, donating money and encouraging my class mates to do the same.

  19. Clarenciar

    It’s also true that women are more likely to kill children. Furthermore, women rape other women. This is not talked about at all. In the Congo, there is an epidemic of female-on-female rape.

    “Recent studies suggest the problem is more widespread than many experts previously believed. In 2010, Harvard academic Lynn Lawry and a team of researchers conducted a survey of human-rights abuses in over 1,000 households in conflict-ridden eastern Congo. It was the same year that Margot Wallstrom, the U.N. special representative on sexual violence in conflict, dubbed Congo “the rape capital of the world.” Lawry’s study asked victims of sexual violence to specify their assailant’s gender. It found that 40% of the women — and 10% of the men — who said they were subjected to sexual violence were assaulted by a woman.”

    There are also millions of women in the U.S. who report being raped by a female. I don’t hear the feminists talking about that. And I don’t hear the feminists talking about male-on-male rape or female-on-female rape either.

Comments are closed.

Sort By:

Refine Content:

Scholar

Additional Keywords:

Refine Results

or to save searches.

Open
Refine Content