AEIdeas

The public policy blog of the American Enterprise Institute

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Discussion: (109 comments)

  1. Max Planck

    Ahh, the slandermeister is hard at work:

    “Exit polls show that by a margin of 52-43, Americans want less government, not more. By a margin of 63-33 they do not want to raise taxes to balance the budget. And by a margin of 49-45, they want Obamacare either partially or entirely repealed. None those wishes will be honored.”

    Asking someone if they want “less government” is like asking people if they want speed limits enforced- they will enthusiastically agree, even as they break the limit themselves. These questions are loaded and these polls are useless. One poll put up last night showed most Americans overwhelming agreed the rich aren’t taxed enough. So how does that square that they don’t want taxes raised to reduce the deficit when anyone with a shred of sense knows that cuts aren’t going to do the job alone, and the cuts on the wealthy, as the CRS report demonstrated, do NOTHING for economic growth.

    They don’t want Obamacare repealed, but those people getting coverage with existing conditions must have been crapping their pants over this election.

    Again, the site is a joke. It tells implausible stories for willing dupes who readily swallow them.

    1. Suzanne Pham

      Max Plank, you are one of the dupes who readily swallow Obama’s malarkey. Now, you’ve set the table for all of us–the ones who bother to do our research. You know this site isn’t a joke. If you thought it was a joke, you wouldn’t read the articles. Hey, thanks for contributing to the destruction of my children’s futures with your support of King Obama! Enjoy the chaos to come.

      1. Max Planck

        Madam, if all you have to say is that I’m a “dupe” after posting responses with enough evidence to satisfy the Nuremberg Tribunal, just get lost.

        This site IS a joke. I don’t think even the people who write this swill believe their own columns, and the stunning lack of empirical evidence, supplanted by a cocooned, tribalistic belief platform, means it is untrustworthy. These “fellows” and “scholars” are utterly incapable of parsing data. They simply comb it to yield the ideological result they want.

    2. crazyjoefordogcatcher

      Max, take a quantum leap to Europe where you belong. You question some of the survey questions but Mark’s analysis of the future is dead on. Go post on the Daily Kos, they’ll love your lies and stupidity.

      1. Max Planck

        What ABOUT Europe? The joke on the Right is their economies have fallen due to “Socialism.”

        Which is nonsense. They fell victim to the same uber-leveraged financial “innovation” we did, and which we sold to them.

        You better start taking a look at the hard metrics of the quality of life of European countries versus ours. We slip in ratings every year, and this has been going on for quite some time.

    3. If I’m not mistaken, your point only is that the people really DO want the opposite of what they say in exit polls. Fair enough. But can’t we agree that what will actually HAPPEN will be quite different from they actually want as well (i.e., unintended and unrecognized consequences)? Mr. Thiessen points out, brutally, to be sure, what is very likely to happen, and suggests that the people responding to the exit polls aren’t going to get what they want. But his point is, I think, that bad things are going to happen. You don’t refute his list of horribles, and I’m left thinking that your point seems to be that what they REALLY want is for those bad things to happen.

      1. Max Planck

        I’m not saying it’s the opposite of polls, I’m saying the polls themselves ask loaded questions that are quite lame.

        I got a call from Rasmussen some months ago. One question was: “Do you think the President should overide the advice of his military commanders in Afghanistan?”

        This is pure bait.

        One, we DO have civil control over the military in this country, and it’s one of our finer attributes. Two, who said there was “disagreement?” And ON WHAT?

        That’s why these questions are asinine, IMO.

    4. Rob Smith

      “It tells implausible stories for willing dupes who readily swallow them.”

      That is hysterical coming from someone who voted for Obama expecting that to be a good thing. Make any phone calls today, I was just wondering how the Obama Phone was…….I thought about getting one but sanity and pride got in my way.

      Personally I am suprised you even had time to write this, shouldn’t you be standing in line waiting to get your free shit.

      1. Max Planck

        The “Obama phone.” Great retort.

        (Christ, please come back here)

  2. So, all in all, barry will SINK the country so low that when (not “if”) the UN volunteers to “save” them with a New World (fascist) Order, they’ll get down on their hands and knees and BEG to be “saved”!

  3. Exit polls show that by a margin of 52-43, Americans want less government, not more. By a margin of 63-33 they do not want to raise taxes to balance the budget. And by a margin of 49-45, they want Obamacare either partially or entirely repealed. None those wishes will be honored.

    The voters chose the man who was closest to being a peace candidate. The GOP blew its opportunity by all of the chest thumping and the suppression of debate in its ranks about the folly of all those foreign interventions.

    1. peace candidate he increase the war in afghanistan, use drones in libya without asking congress and act of war wake up

      1. Sadly an evil warmonger like Obama could be the ‘peace candidate’ because he was much better on that front than Romney. The GOP blew it big time when it allowed the right wing idiots to push for massive intervention and bigger and bigger military spending. Voters figured out that given the financial situation they would rather have a few more welfare handouts than prop up the warfare crowd.

    2. Foreign interventions? You mean like Libya?

      1. Correct. As I wrote above, Romney made Obama look like the peace candidate even though Obama had hit lists, used drones indiscriminately and funded terrorists in North Africa. That fact spoke about the moral bankruptcy and the lack of judgment of the GOP leadership and GOP primary voters. I loved the Ron Paul signs when Romney went to visit Poland. Unlike GOP voters the Poles could actually figure out which of your politicians actually stood for personal liberty.

  4. Seriously, dude… it’s not the end of the world. Relax, and take some solace in the realization that your predictions are about as likely to come true as every other Republican pundits’ predictions that Romney was “sure to win”.

    Instead of grousing, it may be time for conservatives to consider what can be done to reach out to someone other than and 30+ year old successful male WASPs, because this breed is dying.

    1. I don’t disagree that the right needs to start a conversation with all walks of life regarding the promise and opportunity of freedom versus the stifling “equality” of state supplied security. Where I really agree with you is your comment regarding 30+ year old SUCCESSFUL male WASPs — under the Obama administration that demographic is sure to die since success will be measured by how much those individuals can contribute to national revenue versus how many jobs they can create. We’ll see how long a government that produces nothing can squeeze those who do.

  5. Tony Fleming

    FoxNews. Rumsfeld. George W. If you asked a high school newspaper writer to put together a fantasy column prognosticating the next four years based on the combined assumptions of those three, you would come up with this column. There’s too much here to even comment on. I you sure you didn’t leave anything out? Nutty. BTW…if you quote a poll, you should include a link to it.

  6. What all the things on your list serve to do is create dependency that cements power. It is the Chicago Way of combining welfare, patronage and cronyism to make it impossible not to vote for Democrats. They’re still running (and ruining) the city and the state of Illinois that same way…will our country do the same? I don’t see how it doesn’t.

  7. Paul Wierschem

    What Americans who voted for Presidendt Obama fail to realize fully is that this election was more about freedom than ANYTHING else. Americans chose to surrender yet more of their freedom to their government…a government that with every passing year is becoming more and more like the overbearing Crown of England that spurred the birth of our nation. Freedom isn’t free…the more handouts we require the more freedom it will cost us. Romney was the right choice for this time regardless of your politics. We need to drop the whole religion and politics “off limits” crap and start having real discourse again amongst ourselves….”you have a Republic if you can keep it.” Benjamin Franklin

    1. What Americans who voted for Presidendt Obama fail to realize fully is that this election was more about freedom than ANYTHING else….

      Did they? The way I saw it from outside of your country there was very little difference between Obama and Romney on that issue. Both favoured a bigger police state and less liberty across the board. While the GOP could say things about economic freedom the budget that Romney put forward would keep spending at near the same level as Obama for decades. Neither of the two had the guts to call for actual cuts but Obama did not really have to because he was not selling himself as the fiscal conservative. While Obama may be a bad president the voters did not see Romney as a better choice and voted accordingly.

  8. Unsurprising that torture-boy hates the resuts of democratic elections.

    1. alanstorm

      Congratulations! You have produced a picture-perfect “liberal” response – devoid of facts, and related to nthing at all!

      thanks for playing – you can go back to fantasy land. While you can.

    2. Yes, kind of reminds you of Wisconsin’s Democrats doesn’t it.

  9. For the first time in the history of America, the people have knowingly raised up as their leader a person who is for abortion on demand, pushing homosexuality and gay marriage rights, is hostile to Israel, and pro Islam. Never before has a President turned from Judeo Christian principles in such an open unhidden way. (He hid who he really was in the first election). If you’re a believer, you know what this may mean. God will not be mocked. I can’t quit crying and believing that America just committed suicide.
    And then there’s all the financial repercussions that comes with Obama….

    1. What does “awaiting moderation” mean?

  10. Barry Nuechterlein

    Maybe the electorate isn’t the group that needs to be punished, here. Maybe they were just more afraid of Republican social policy than Democratic economic policy, and chose the lesser of two evils.

    Maybe the GOP needs to get its priorities straight and stop insulting gays, women, Hispanics, and secular-minded people who otherwise might find its economic program appealing.

    Maybe the way forward for the conservative movement is to amputate the nativist, anti-choice, anti-gay, militarily adventurist, hard-core religious wing of the party and move forward with a center-right economic agenda that doesn’t scare people.

    Maybe, then the GOP can win and implement its economic program in 2016.

    GOP? Change or become irrelevant.

    1. Mickey Logan

      “[T]he GOP … insult[s] gays, women, Hispanics, and secular-minded people…”

      Evidence? Quoting the NYT or Chris Matthews doesn’t count.

      1. Examples of GOP insults? We don’t need quotes from Matthews or any other medial person. We have the GOP politicians themselves – Akin and Mourdock insulting rape victims specifically and women generally through their rape comments, West calling dozens of House Democrats communists, Romney insulting women in his concession speech about how his men do the work and their women pick up the slack, Romney insulting Hispanics by suggesting they self-deport, Romney declaring that 47% of the electorate see themselves as victims. The examples are legion.

        But we can refer to the media for insults if you wish. Check out this headline by a conservative website, comparing the electorate of adult voters to children needing to be disciplined – “The people have spoken … and they must be punished.”

        1. You are correct to criticize Romney for declaring that 47% of the electorate see themselves as victims. It seems he was three percent low in his estimation. God help us

  11. You forgot to mention that Obama will continue not torturing enough brown people.

    1. Drones fired into populated areas does constitute torture (or terrorism) in many peoples’ eyes. And the Pakistanis do count as ‘brown people’ in your racist eyes, don’t they?

  12. Thiessen’s remarks seem to me dead on. Americans want a “peace candidate?” Iran has been at war with us since 1979, and militant Islam more generally since shortly thereafter (if not before; Sayed Qutb, al Qaeda’s founder, visited and condemned America in the late 1940’s.) We can’t escape history, but ignorance of history will doom us. Wait and see; Thiessen will be proved correct on these predictions.

    1. Gregg Helsel

      And by then, it will be too late to save our Republic.

    2. Max Planck

      If Iran has been such a threat since 1979, why the F did we invade Iraq?

  13. wow, you guys on the right really don’t have a clue, do you? that list is as far from factually based as the predictions about this election were from the right’s media moguls. a little advice – start basing your opinions on real evidence, and you’ll be a much more successful party. but that’s all the advice i’ll give… now i’ll go back to just enjoying the moment.

    1. alanstorm

      Enjoy it while you can, slow child. The evidence is already there…if you care to look.

      But that would require thought and effort, would it not? Much easier to just go with your feelings, like a typical “liberal”.

  14. Seth Lee Abrams

    More irresponsible nonsense from the irresponsibly wrong-Right.

  15. Christopher

    Except for the part about what the American people want, Marc pretty much nails it. I’m going to get what the Obama voters deserve.

    1. We all get what we deserve because we are responsible for our own actions. The fact that in the latest election we saw Stalin beat Hitler does not mean that a mindful individual cannot prepare and take personal advantage of the outcome going forward.

  16. Silver lining…..those who voted for Obama will reap what they sow. The crumbling economy and the subsequent taxmagedon will impact them harder that those of us in flyover states. A tax on a 250,000 salary might be taxing the rich in Alabama, but it is run of the mill middle class in any blue state. According to Obama voting is an act of revenge, my revenge is to encourage anyone in flyover America to take the redistribution in chief on. Quit your measly paying jobs and get in on any governments assistance. Retired, file for disability, get food stamps, welfare etc…knowing that the tax burden will most likely fall on the idiots that voted for socialism. Clowen and Piven them out of existence.

    1. My sentiments exactly. I’ve also been performing a thought experiment based on the notions that Congressional Republicans should either sit on their hands for the next four years, or resign en masse, just to get it over with. Let ‘em have it.

    2. Max Planck

      The only problem with this argument is that Louisiana, and the rest of the Southern Scum States are nothing more than giant welfare states themselves. Fat Hayley Barbour and Bobby Jindal boast of their fiscal conservativism. But they have been living off the higher taxed Blue states for decades. These governors are little more than slumlords living of a giant Section 8 program.

      http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

  17. Are you joking? $250K is a “run of the mill middle class” salary in any blue state? Not even in Northern Virginia, where the median income is in the 70s is that true. I don’t think there is ANYwhere in this country where that is a “run of the mill” salary.

  18. Time to yank your head out of the cement you’ve buried it in. Most of these sound like progress. Welcome to the modern world.

    1. alanstorm

      1. Obamacare will now become a permanent feature of the American political landscape. It will never be repealed.

      No doubt you see this as a feature – “Free” health care! TANSTAAFL. Learn what it means, and figure out what it’ll cost you.

      2. The unprecedented levels of spending in Obama’s first four years will become the new floor, as America sets new records for fiscal profligacy and debt.

      This is progress…how, exactly?

      3. Job creators will face massive tax increases, and more Americans will come off the tax rolls—resulting in fewer citizens with a stake in keeping taxes low and more with a stake in protecting benefits.

      This is progress…how, exactly?

      4. Government dependency, already at record levels, will continue to grow.

      This is progress…how, exactly?

      5. Four lost years in dealing with the entitlement crisis will become eight—digging us into a hole from which we may not be able to emerge.

      This is progress…how, exactly?

      6. Obama, unworried about the impact of gas and electricity prices on his reelection, will finally wage the regulatory war on fossil fuels the Left demands.

      See comment on #1, dimbulb. you have no conception on how products get to market or where electricity comes from, do you?

      7. He will unleash the Environmental Protection Agency to impose crushing new burdens on U.S. business.

      No doubt you see this as progress as well, being economically illiterate.

      8. His administration’s assault on religious freedom will go on and expand to new areas.

      I’m sure you see this as progress. Why should another religion compete with “liberalism”?

      9. The Defense Department will be gutted, with cuts so deep that America will no longer be a superpower.

      A vacuum will be filled. count on it.

      10. Obama will almost certainly have the opportunity to appoint more liberal Supreme Court justices, possibly replacing conservatives on the high court — ending the Roberts court in all but name for a generation.

      More government by edict. Wonderful.

      Thank you for confirming that you’re an idiot.

  19. Jefferson said: “I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever . . . .” – Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII

    America has become utterly depraved & so it just doesn’t deserve to live Happily Ever After, not now anyway. You can’t count high enough its terrible moral failings. So God has unleashed the philosophy of failure on society as a whole. The good deserve it, to wake them out of their slumber; the bad deserve that their terrible philosophy spread, to further enhance their misery & squalor. The people of the late 1800s had the moral fortitude to get rid of slavery; it’s highly unlikely our current lot of citizens would do the same, were it still part of everyday life. The evangelicals would quote the Bible saying “Love Thy Neighbor”, “Love Thy Enemy.” The slackers would say, “Huh? Is that an app for my I-pad?” And go on texting their virtual friends.

  20. Bryan Leed

    Your checklist is accurate, but why do you hold onto the proven false idea that most Americans are conservative? After Obama’s re-election, clearly this nation is more liberal than conservative. It is time we conservatives work from the perspective of being cultural minorities, NOT the majority viewpoint.

    1. What exactly was ‘conservative’ about Romney or the GOP? They are about as far from the Old Right as they could go without being Socialists or National Socialists. (And yes Ron, I know that a case can be made that they have adopted the characteristics of both.)

  21. John Mcaluney Jr

    As Rush Limbaugh said yesterday “Its tough to beat Santa Claus.”

    Its goverment by Executive Order.

  22. Clevelander

    If you step back and look at the big picture, the future in the US is not bright. A majority of our citizens will be born to single mothers, expecting the government to pay for their wants, and completely devoid of any appreciation for the basic principles on which our country was founded.

    What can we do? We can hope they change. Likelihood of that happening is slim. Perhaps some asians will start to realize that their racist dislike of the Republican party is self defeating and that they are as much at odds with the new majority as are Republicans.

    There really is only one alternative: Secession. A peaceful and lawful process by which the majority of the citizens in each state vote for join a new union.

    The United Nation’s charter recognizes the right of self determination of peoples. The USSR disbanded into states where people who shared a common ideology could escape the central government’s control. The separatist party in Quebec has been toying with this issue for years, even running the province. The Kosavars were able to establish a separate country. So should we.

    At some point this must become an issue for serious discussion.

    1. bob maney

      Secession would save money for blue voting states since, in the main, red states receive more than $1.00 from the federal government for every dollar they contribute in taxes. Secede away boyos.

      1. Max Planck

        http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/04/the_red_state_ripoff.html

        Correct. ALL Red States are little more than giant welfare states that live off the largesse of the Blue States that produce the REAL wealth in this country. The Right to Work Slobovias need life support from the Libs.

    2. Barry Nuechterlein

      Partition is not a trifling matter. Remember India/Pakistan. Remember the Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland. Remember East/West Germany.

      Families torn apart, friendships lost, having to abandon one’s home and move a thousand miles away in order to live under the system you prefer.

      The Red/Blue divide isn’t neat and clean. There are a lot of patches, islands, and enclaves. What happens to the people who don’t want to move? Do they get loaded onto trucks and dumped hundreds of miles from their former homes in the middle of winter?

      This is Trail of Tears stuff. Conservatives and Liberals are not two different peoples. Even within families, there are both viewpoints. Give your head a shake.

  23. TruthSayer

    The nitwit moron majority (i.e. minorities, women, unions and college students) re-elected the worst performing president in 50 years and now will reap the benefits. Employers will convert to part-time employees if not outright fire them. College grads will have no jobs (other than part time waiter/waitress/cashier). Private unions will be decimated as Obama attacks the coal, oil, and gas industries. States and municipalities will not be able to fund their governement pension plans. Screw ‘em! They voted for it. They deserve it. Go on welfare for life you idiots. I don’t and will never have any sympathy for those out of work, destitute, or impoverished because of Obama. I will no longer fund any private charities. Go to the government you fools. That’s my charity.

  24. Clevelander

    If you step back and look at the big picture, the future in the US is not bright. A majority of our citizens will be born to single mothers, expecting the government to pay for their wants, and completely devoid of any appreciation for the basic principles on which our country was founded.

    What can we do? We can hope they change. Likelihood of that happening is slim. Perhaps some Asians will start to realize that their dislike of the Republican party is self defeating and that they are as much at odds with the new majority as are Republicans.

    There really is only one alternative: Secession. A peaceful and lawful process by which the majority of the citizens in each state vote for join a new union.

    The United Nation’s charter recognizes the right of self determination of peoples. The USSR disbanded into states where people who shared a common ideology could escape the central government’s control. The separatist party in Quebec has been toying with this issue for years, even running the province. The Kosavars were able to establish a separate country. So should we.

    At some point this must become an issue for serious discussion.

  25. While I agree that many people will suffer due to Obama’s presidency. I do have a more optimistic outlook. While Obamacare may not be outright repealed, it will eventually be repealed piece by piece, or written. I’m confident of this just because the law is disfunctional. I’m also Optimistic that we are approaching the end of the welfare state. The bills are coming due. I think we are near to the point where the economy will not support the debt and borrowing. When that bubble bursts, it will take the welfare system with it. Just because we will not be able to borrow enough to keep it running.

    1. Clevelander

      I think that demographics will define the future and the population growth is coming from those sectors of our society who have no respect for concepts of individual responsibility or private property rights. I was hopeful until November 6. Now I am not. Our future is a state like Argentina. I’m calling it now.

  26. Guy D'Esposito

    Really? Obamacare is now a permanent fixture of the political landscape?? Get a backbone and stop your surrender monkey garbage! We are where we are because so called conservatives like you capitulate so easily.

    Bottom line, the Republican House needs to stand up and use EVERY tactic at it’s disposal to ring concessions out of Obama over the next two years (until the next mid-term election at which point he’s really a lame duck president). If the shoe were on the other foot, the Democrats would not hesitate to bring the whole ship down (figuratively of course) if it meant they would achieve their goals or get them closer to their planned endgame.

    Wake up Conservatives, the future of our Republic is at stake. This is no time to be weak kneed. Stand up and fight for once!!

    1. JJ Chester

      My hope is that we are looking at 4 years of guerilla warfare. The House needs to pass one bill after another on tax reform, imigration, Obama Care repeal, Dod-Frank and Sarbanes-Oxley repeal, etc.

      Governors need to bring one suit after another attacking Obama Care, the EPA, Dodd-Frank, etc.

      The last thing they need to do is compromise or be idle. They need to move every conservative action they can imagine and dare the Senate and the president to reject them.

      The same goes for state legislatures. Now that many key state houses and governors mansions are Republican controlled, they need to take action on big issues.

      1. This is a democracy, dude. Major actions need to be taken to address challenges facing our country and YOU don’t get to have it YOUR way. Fair is fair. Let me review and I’ll try to make it simple, knowing your people’s difficulty with math. A HUGE election just occurred. Democrats just reelected their President with a large electoral vote victory and a majority of the popular vote. If NY & NJ hadn’t been severely impacted by Superstorm Sandy, at least a couple more million Americans would have voted. While not changing the electoral vote, a significant number of those votes would have been cast for Obama/Biden ticket, further increasing his popular vote margin of victory. Democrats increased their marjority in the Senate to 55; and while the House stayed in Republican control, Democrats cut the number of seats needed to retake the House in 2014 to just 17. In a horrifying demonstration of the fraud perpetuated by Republican’s gerrymandering of House districts, there were actually 500,000 more votes cast for Democratic House candidates than Republican candidates, thereby lowering the credibility of any Republican attempt to control the negotiations. Also, only 35% to 40% of the country self-identifies as Conservative. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT FULLY SUPPORT A CONSERVATIVE AGENDA. What am I getting at? Well, if Conservatives had the numbers I’ve just provided, you would no doubt demand the line in the Constitution stating “provide for the general welfare” be declared null and void. However, Democrats, Moderates and Independents (as I am) will not be as radically idealogical. What we we will demand will be about a 2/3rd favorability in any “deal”. FAIR IS FAIR and the majority have spoken and last time I checked the dictionary, democracy provides for a majority rule.

        1. Uh, dude,

          We are not a democracy. By definition and design of Founders. We did not just have a plebescite. We are federal republic with democratic institutions.

          Just sayin’…

          1. Please do not let the facts get in the way of an argument. Our friend is on a roll.

        2. This is a democracy, dude.

          Agreed.

          Major actions need to be taken to address challenges facing our country and YOU don’t get to have it YOUR way. Fair is fair.

          If two wolves and a sheep get to vote on what is for lunch is the outcome fair? What gives the majority the right to violate the right of a minority? What gives Congress or the President the authority to engage in activities that are not permitted by the Constitution?

          Let me review and I’ll try to make it simple, knowing your people’s difficulty with math.

          “Your people’s?” I guess that tells us a lot about your elevated sense of self importance. Just make your point without the hand waving.

          A HUGE election just occurred.

          Huge? Didn’t you have around ten million fewer voters than last time? That seems to show that voters believed that no matter what they did the status quo would win.

          Democrats just reelected their President with a large electoral vote victory and a majority of the popular vote.

          Actually, more people chose to stay away than voted for either candidate.

          If NY & NJ hadn’t been severely impacted by Superstorm Sandy, at least a couple more million Americans would have voted.

          Perhaps, but the storm gave Obama a chance to look presidential and was good for his campaign. Without it the election may have swung the other way. This is why we don’t really rely on hypotheticals.

          While not changing the electoral vote, a significant number of those votes would have been cast for Obama/Biden ticket, further increasing his popular vote margin of victory. Democrats increased their marjority in the Senate to 55; and while the House stayed in Republican control, Democrats cut the number of seats needed to retake the House in 2014 to just 17. In a horrifying demonstration of the fraud perpetuated by Republican’s gerrymandering of House districts, there were actually 500,000 more votes cast for Democratic House candidates than Republican candidates, thereby lowering the credibility of any Republican attempt to control the negotiations. Also, only 35% to 40% of the country self-identifies as Conservative. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DO NOT FULLY SUPPORT A CONSERVATIVE AGENDA.

          If you are trying to say that the majority does not support the GOP I could not agree more. Like the Democrats the GOP has very low support among the American voter. Romney lost because he made Obama look like the peace candidate at a time when Americans were sick and tired of war. But on the corruption side let us make it clear that both parties control the electoral process and have made it difficult for third party challengers. The racket is too profitable to permit new entrants.

          What am I getting at? Well, if Conservatives had the numbers I’ve just provided, you would no doubt demand the line in the Constitution stating “provide for the general welfare” be declared null and void. However, Democrats, Moderates and Independents (as I am) will not be as radically idealogical. What we we will demand will be about a 2/3rd favorability in any “deal”. FAIR IS FAIR and the majority have spoken and last time I checked the dictionary, democracy provides for a majority rule.

          How ironic. The Founding Fathers rejected democracy because it would lead to the very situation that we have now; a parasite class trying to live off the rest for as long as possible until the country went bankrupt and failed. They chose a limited republic instead but that did not last very long as men fought to gain access to the ring of power and were corrupted by that power no matter how well intentioned they may have been at the beginning.

          I think that it is time that both the left and the right figured out that their ideology is intellectually and morally bankrupt and that young voters are finally figuring out that they have been dealt a bad hand by the political establishment. Eventually, that will matter.

    2. sg briggs

      When I read Thiessen’s whine. I thought it was the dumbest thing I had read in a week. Then I read D’Esposito.Obama was and is a weak candidate but a Party that nominates numbskulls for the Senate, runs a 12 month + primary season tha should Have played on Comedy Central, and apparently doesn’t know that the job of Government is to govern shouldn’t be surprised if a majority of the population thinks it is a joke, People enjoy watching clowns but they don’t vote for clowns.

      1. Obama has governed like a clown for the past four years and his VP plagiarized his way through clown college. The notion that any serious person takes the Democrats seriously is seriously flawed.

        1. Well how about a HUGE win in electoral college driven by a popular vote majority. While President Obama received less votes than the historic number he garnered in 2008, he is the President RECEIVING THE MOST VOTES IN ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY! Y’all have just got to get better at math! And before ya start going all . . . black people, Latinos . . . Guess what – African Americans only make up 13% of the population and Latinos only 16%. While those demographics do vote overwhelmingly Democratic, as you can see, a significant portion of the Democratic vote totals were from whites. Just do your math – MOST Americans voted for the Democratic Presidential ticket, MOST Americans voted for Democratic Senate candidates AND over 500,000 more Americans voted for Democratic House candidates than GOP candidates; but due to gerrymandered districts, more districts are “safe” Republican. Based on your level of understanding, you probably aren’t knowledgable about the topic of gerrymandering, but I don’t feel like taking the time and space to elaborate; should you be interested, it’s fairly easy to look up. But when you say “the notion that any serious person takes the Democrats seriously is seriously flawed”, you just make yourself look foolish. This fundamental denial of actual facts by Republicans (usually the conservative or tea-type) completely undermines the credibility of the Republican Party and is beginning to cause more and more Americans to not take y’all seriously. Unless something changes, we may not see a Republican president again for 16 to 20 more years. Now, I predict there is gonna be a bloodbath within the Republican Party and it is possible the intelligent, reasonable Republicans can again bring some intelligence-based discourse based on facts to their supporters; if so, Republican Party may not completely implode and become irrelevant; and I actually hope that happens. I am an Independent from Alabama and used to vote for many Republicans. I believe it’s good for the country to have two strong parties that can engage in vigorous debate and keep each other in check. But when members of your party make statements like “no serious person takes Democrats seriously” when faced with a reelection of a Democratic president who HAS RECEIVED MORE VOTES than any President in history – well I just can’t relate to those kinds of delusional and ignorant ravings. Sorry!

      2. And the job of an undertaker is to undertake. That doesn’t mean generating more dead bodies to process.

        A productive Congress is not one that passes the greatest possible number of laws.

        No compromise. The 50% of America that didn’t vote for bigears shall be heard.

      3. Guy D'Esposito

        sg…… what is so dumb about demanding that Republican leaders hold the line against Obama’s statist plans?? Feel free to join Marc and throw your arms up in surrender as the Libs march our country to history’s dustbin! I for one plan on continuing to do my part, however small, whenever and wherever I can.

        Do us all a favor and join the other side…… there’s no room in the ranks for naysayers or armchair quarterbacks – not now, not ever.

      4. Eltricolor2014

        “Obama was and is a weak candidate.” Uh, no, that’s not true. He had one thing that most of us forgot. He is beloved by most Americans. His rise from an Illinois senator to POTUS in 2008 was not earned by mutliple and grand achievements – up till then he’s done absolutely nothing. His election in 2008 was based solely on his popularity, his cult of personality and the mainstream media. And these two ‘resources’ is what carried him in Ohio and Colorado. They guy is considered cool and he doesn’t even play a saxophone. Unfortunately, it’s America’s lack of respect towards leaders that get the job done which has unraveled Romney’s campaign. Romney could never be cool, he is a brilliant businessman but America wants and demands a celebrity.

      5. Amendment! The nation is evenly split, Zero barely made it back in with a majority. BOEHNER AND CANTOR WILL AND MUST STICK TO THEIR GUNS AND WE CONSERVATIVES MUST FIGHT EVEN MORE AGGRESSIVELY. No tears, no recriminations, and no let up in our fight.

      6. LOL…As the Founders pointed out, the government that governs best governs least. The GOP forgot that point a long time ago and expand government as quickly as the Democrats. If that is the case why should anyone who cares about small government vote for them?

    3. celeste dwyer

      there aren’t enough conservatives with a backbone to thwart this mess

    4. Running wild

      Agreed! We must fight like the Dems fight us. I’m tired of Republicans being wimps on these issues. This is NOT a time to surrender.

    5. The administrations “class warfare” rhetoric and antagonism toward business was viewed by the populace as theoretical. “Just another campaign strategy”. Now it becomes reality. What will be the reaction when Obamacare
      fully kicks in? How long will the administration allow business to sit on the sidelines before forcing investment by using populist, class warfare rhetoric to get them in line? When will the Democrats declare all “energy” a matter of national security? Realistic questions all. Unfortunately, the Republican controlled House may not have the stomach for the type of confrontation you suggest.

  27. Even in the instance of a horrible election result, it is something that God intended.

    1. Yes, Aaron Everything that happens God can turn for good and ultimately all things,people, wiil recogize him
      to their grateful joy or their deep shame, but I think yor dancing on the grave of a once great nation is petty and low.

  28. I just love the counter argument “no, no, no, it aint’ gonna happen”. Really? why? What’s so implausible in the listed items? Obama and Dems will suddenly become fiscal conservatives?
    Read what other Obama supporters are saying: people want Big Government, people want to be on the Gov dole. People are useless lazy scum who need Government to feed them and wipe their behinds. And we will take away from those greedy productive people and give it to the nice non-productive ones.
    That’s what they want, and they believe it will make US better. And the World.
    The only hope is that things will become so bad so no amount of hope and change will replace lack of the food for those mooches. Just look how things are going in NJ and NYC after Obama finished his photo-op. Big Government at work

    1. John Schuh

      After the Labour Party took power in Britain in 1945, the economy remained in the doldrums until the 1980s.when Thatcher was able to change course. New Labour more or less followed her economic policy, but then turned back more to the post-war heading, and invited millions of foreigners to come in and do the kind of jobs that Britons would not do. The native English are so used to their cans. They don’t want to work, but what their things. They have become pretty close to the kind of Romans who followed Caesar before he went to Gaul, learned how to use an army, and seized control of Rome as dictator. Bread and circuses. So far we have not seen anyone die in a reality show, but don’t rule it out if it will raise ratings. Maybe the Right to Die folks will sign up the willing volunteers. Or maybe the cage fighters will decide to start young knives and swords. Who knows what will come in future days.

  29. JJ Chester

    Some other people are speaking as well. This morning I had the ocassion to speak with 4 pals, all attorneys living in Virginia. Three are with what is considered by many to be the states most prestigious firm and the other is with a big DC firm. Here is what they told me:

    1) The grandson of the founder of the VA firm gave his housekeeper 2 weeks severance pay and told her that after 13 years, he can no longer afford the luxury. The pending increase in his Fereral taxes are greater than her pay.

    2) The second VA lawyer cancelled his planned February vacation to the Caymans. He takes his wife, four kids and his in-laws. The deadline to get his deposit back is November 15.

    3) The third VA lawyer has cancelled an addition to his house which was scheduled to begin in January.

    4) My DC pal cancelled his order for a new German car. The dealer returned his deposit becuase he has been buying a new car from this dealer for about 10 years. (He and the wife alternate new cars every other year.) The dealer feels confident that he can sell the car to someone else.

    I know this is not a scientific survey and that the data will not fit into some econometric model, but the knock on impact of such actions will. We are all going to pay for Tuesdays blunder.

    Obama may think that voting is the best revenge, but’ when unleashed, revenge knows no boundaries or favorites.

    1. Vladimir Estragon

      Oh my God! Wealthy Washington attorneys are cancelling their vacations to the Caymans! Run for the hills!

      1. Hey Bonehead. Yeah, you. Forget the attorneys. The people you really need to worry about are all those Mr. & Mrs. Joe Six-Packs working 6 days a week who won’t be taking their vacations in the Poconos when their health care costs skyrocket after ObamaCare really kicks in.

        But, hey, in the march to socialism, you can’t make an omelet without breaking some eggs, eh?

      2. You missed the point. Each and every one of these folks now have to refocus their own earnings to send off to the govt – which will promptly misallocate them.

        Instead of those funds going to create good paying American jobs (even the vacation supports the airlines) it will be wasted. And the Joe Sixpacks who would have had a little more, now will have a little less. This is what happens when the govt shuts the trickle down from the tap. The economy shrinks.

        1. I am a lawyer, and I believe I know the industry quite well, perhaps even better than you. In all areas of practice, regulation is the attorney’s bread and butter. It is government which you will turn to to enforce the terms of the contract your lawyers are negotiating should those terms be violated. It is because of the body of contract law, which manages the execution and enforcement of all contracts’ both simple and complex, that your lawyers are so expensive. The UCC is a difficult body of law, for which your lawyers earn their keep by guiding you through so expertly. Their service is valuable, but it is a service nonetheless that depends on government to sustain itself.

    2. Attorneys belong to the producing class? I’m quite certain there are conservative opinions to the contrary expressed on this site.

      Here’s what attorneys do – they provide a service. And, the service they provide depends on government action, both substantive (producing law) and practical (funding the courts). It seems a bit short-sighted for those who make their living on one aspect of the government remaining large and active to criticize other elements of government staying large and active.

      Are they tax lawyers? Then a simplified tax code and a smaller tax base will send them to the poorhouse – their living depends on a complicated code with lots of arcane language and obscure loopholes.

      Are they criminal defense lawyers? Then they need a robust criminal law and vigilant enforcement. If they are part of big firms, then they needs these things in the area of white collar crime. The creation and enforcement of the criminal law is a government function, and all the financial reform should keep these firms raking in profits from white collar defendants.

      These are examples in support of a point – rich lawyers complaining about big government are advocating the shrinking of their own market.

      1. Every purchae these rich lawyers don’t make is income that a company won’t earn, and sooner or later an employee that the company won’t need. This is the problem in the thinking of the Left, too. They demonize and ridicule the succesful and the wealthy, acting as if they don’t matter. They matter a grewat deal, and we’re about to find out just how much. And when it comes to lawyers, don’t think their services are not valuable. Most law practiced is not tax or criminal or even civil litigation. It is contract law — the deals that make big stuff happen in the economy and create jobs. I spend hundereds of thousand on lawyers every year at my company, and I couldn’t get by without their services.

        1. I am a lawyer, and I believe I know the industry quite well, perhaps even better than you. In all areas of practice, regulation is the attorney’s bread and butter. It is government which you will turn to to enforce the terms of the contract your lawyers are negotiating should those terms be violated. It is because of the body of contract law, which manages the execution and enforcement of all contracts’ both simple and complex, that your lawyers are so expensive. The UCC is a difficult body of law, for which your lawyers earn their keep by guiding you through so expertly. Their service is valuable, but it is a service nonetheless that depends on government to sustain itself.

          I posted this earlier as a reply to the wrong comment.

      2. Clevelander

        You should read a book by Judge Posner on Law and Economics to understand how the laws are needed in a capitalist system, why they are necessary, and which laws and regulations allow a capitalist system to work more efficiently and which hinder it.

        Contract lawyers ensure that all aspects of a transaction are considered and that the documents accurately reflect the client’s understanding. As such they are promoting the efficiency of the system. However, trial lawyers like Edwards, who take a feature that is necessary to our society (responsibility for actions caused by one’s negligence) and are allowed to extend it to become counterproductive (if a problem is encountered with a child’s birth, that is proof enough of the doctor’s and the hospital’s negligence, so sue them for millions of dollars and if you can’t prove your case, and the doctors and hospitals spend a million dollars or more defending it, well that is too bad for them). The issue is one of degrees and distinctions. All laws and regulations arent bad and are not contrary to a capitalist system. Some are. Read Posner to understand this issue.

    3. The poor babies. The first story is the one that really touched my heart. The housekeeper will do OK. In Obama’s socialist paradise she will have unemployment compensation to fall back on and then welfare and food stamps. But her employer will have to do all the work she did by themselves.

      1. The only thing “touched” as they used to say, is you.

  30. Guy, you speak as though we have leaders we respect. There are no respectful republican or conservative leaders. They are all clueless and couldn’t figure out how to get themselves out of a wet paper bag.

    1. Guy D'Esposito

      Tim, that’s my point. We need to do something about it instead of whining about it.

    2. Eltricolor2014

      I disagree. There are great Republican leaders. Paul Ryan is a great leader. It’s just that America DOES NOT CARE. America sees the economy as a bump on the road. America figures the economy will turn around regardless of whoever is in office. And America loves Obama. Get with it, this guy is popular than….well actually he is the most popular guy in the world. He is as beloved as John Paul II was…it has reached this stratosphere. When voters choose between the awful economy versus Obama and pick Obama, you know this guy is popular. An awful POTUS, yes. But do Americans care? No. He looks just too darn cool schmoozing with Jay Z, Whoopi, David Letterman and Chris Christie.

      1. Paul Ryan is a great leader.

        Is that the Paul Ryan who voted for every big government program that Bush advanced? Or the Paul Ryan who could not figure out how to make any real cut in the budget but only played around with ‘cutting’ by expanding spending at less the projected baseline increase?

        Republican voters need to look very closely at their party. It is not substantially different than the Democrats and, as Butler Shaffer keeps reminding us, is just the right wing of the same bird of prey that lives off the taxpayers.

  31. This would all be a little more understandable, from a policy standpoint, if there were such a thing as a massive Obama surge in spending & the welfare state. But there isn’t. The increase in spending in the past five years is due almost entirely to the weak economy– decreasing revenues, increasing expenditures for unemployment & Medicaid.

    In fact, this sort of wailing and gnashing of teeth comes from pure tribalism.

    “Deficits don’t matter”, the 2004 GOP proclaimed; today, being a Republican means talking a lot about the deficit, and doubling down on the early 2000s policies that created the deficit. No one exemplifies this more than Paul Ryan. He supported Medicare Part D, the occupation of Iraq, the surplus-destroying 2000s fiscal policies, the USA PATRIOT Act, and No Child Left Behind. Today he’s marketed, incongruously, as a deficit hawk and a small-government conservative.

    Pres. Bush left office with around a 30 percent approval from independents, around 60 percent from Republicans, and around 80 percent from self-professed “conservative Republicans”– despite all the above-mentioned non-conservative actions.

    All this hysteria about spending and America deserving the coming “real rain” that “will come and wash all this scum off the streets” has exactly the same policy and ideological content as an Eagles fan pouting the day after a loss that the refs were biased, Andy Reid is a bad coach, and Mike Vick isn’t any good. If they win the next few weeks, they’ll say that Vick and Reid are the best QB-head coach combo in the league.

    Identifying as a Republican is a matter of pure tribalism, pure sociology, shorn of any pretense of rational policy preferences.

    1. ….Identifying as a Republican is a matter of pure tribalism, pure sociology, shorn of any pretense of rational policy preferences….

      That should say Republican and/or Democrat

  32. Mwalimu Daudi

    Let me take these points one at a time:

    1. ObamaCare was not going to be repealed even if Romney had won. During his interview with David Gregory of NBC Mittens has expressed a definite mend-it-don’t-end-it preference.

    2. Yes, but as along as the consequence are not instantaneous it will not affect Obama.

    3. Millions of Americans who voted for Obama this week fully agree. They just don’t give a damn, so long as they get their government freebies. And no – they don’t make the connection between the economy and government spending. To them it’s all money that really belongs to them.

    4. Slavery is the new freedom. Haven’t you heard?

    5. The only time the serfs will even think about rising up is if their government checks start bouncing. But so what? The vast majority are too lazy to organize, and if a few did the government will label them as terrorists and dispose of them.

    6. If you are dying of starvation and icy weather, at least you represent no threat to our just-elected moral betters. Millions of people hit by Hurricane Sandy are finding that out right now. In a decade all of America will look likt it was hit by a major storm.

    7. The USSR had the KGB; we have the EPA.

    8. Government is god – ye shall have no other gods before It.

    9. Even if that didn’t happen, it does not matter. And frankly, the fewer guns the Obama administration has the safer I feel.

    10. More liberal – compared to what? The present court already rivals the Soviet Politburo. Two or three more liberals on the court – heck, make it a cool million – won’t make any real difference.

    The good news (for those like me who are mean of spirit) is that societal collapse is an equal opportunity downer. It is in fact the ultimate in fairness, which is a virtue Democrats really hate. Shrieking, “I’m a Democrat and I’m entitled to it!!” won’t make electricity come back, grow food, or heal children dying of diseases that used to be found only in Third World hellholes. As Mark Steyn once said: sometimes societies become too stupid to survive.

  33. Eltricolor2014

    1.) Obama is a cult figure, a living JFK. Seriously, Spielfreak will probably direct his movie The Life of Obama from being born in Kenya to the POTUS. How else can voters reject our economy and elect a man whose passion is playing golf and appearing on The View. 2.) For those who think Congress can do something about Obamacare, you’re dead wrong. Congress won’t be able to defund it. Unless another suit brings Obamacare to the Supreme Court, Congress is helpless. Thanks John Roberts. 3.) Obama is a cult figure, and I have no idea why. For a man who has done nothing GOOD, he’s adored by every single man and woman in the US. It’s a sad commentary on us, the American voter.

    1. “Seriously, Spielfreak will probably direct his movie…”

      Oh goody, a Jewish Leni Reifenstahl. I’m sure Leni…er..Steven will do a bang-up documentary he’ll title “Triumph of the Swill.”

    2. I agree with many of the points that you are making. But what you miss is the fact that the GOP primary voters made it easy for voters to choose Obama. Not only did they choose a man who has always favoured central planning and big government but they chose a man who would let the neocons that conned the public into supporting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to dictate foreign policy. They chose a man without principles to oppose a president who had no principles. The GOP primary voters chose a man who would grow spending for the next eight years to oppose a man who could only grow spending for the next four years. And they made a president who had kill lists and funded terrorists look like the peace candidates.

      The way I see it GOP voters have nothing to blame but their own unprincipled arrogance and stupidity.

  34. Bill Jones

    ” The Defense Department will be gutted, with cuts so deep that America will no longer be a superpower.”

    If only that were true.

    America could be more than adequately defended for $200B.

    Why should I pay for the crazed dominionist dreams of the Trotskyite neocon nutjobs?

    1. Bill, back slowly away from the keyboard and take your meds. The nice young men in the white coats are here to take you away to a happy place.

  35. Exactly. I was very surprised at how many people voted to give Obama another chance especially the Hispanics. I thought for sure after 2008 when he did nothing for them that they would see the folly of selling your vote for empty promises. The blacks have been doing that for the Democrat Party for decades and where are they? Too bad. But just like they say in AA. You have to hit bottom first and we are now well on our way.

    1. Max Planck

      Again, people are so blind. He did “nothing for hispanics?” He singlehandly allowed the children of illegals a pathway to legitimacy and the ability to work and go to school without being deported.

      Not every lunatic statement can be answered, but some of you folks are really uninformed. Stay out of “Red State” and “Free Republic” and get into the real world.

  36. You realize Koch was joking, don’t you? Irony is lost on you lot.

    What’s striking in this post-election stuff is how childish it is, petulant and defiant. Where’s the conservative stoicism, the stiff upper lip, the Burkean understanding that the world is imperfect, the thought that maybe at least some of “the people” know something you don’t?

    1. I have NEVER heard such “whining, hand-wringing, whoa-is-me, I’m a victim, the world is ending, America is ending” talk in my life. Republicans, Conservatives and Tea-types have turned into a bunch of . . . kitties !

  37. Mr. Thiessen, so much of what you said can be disputed or is just plain wrong. Here’s just one example. You stated, as if it is a hard fact, that exit polls show by a margin of 63-33, Americans do not want to raise taxes. You don’t make any attempt to source this or any of the “stuff” included willy nilly in your list. HOWEVER, on the tax issue – 47% of Americans support letting Bush tax cuts expire for those making over $250,000, 13% support letting Bush tax cuts expire for ALL Americans – which means 60% of Americans support a tax increase on those making over $250,000 per year, while only 35% think no one’s taxes should be raised. These facts are easy to source; just use Google or Yahoo and search for “2012 exit polls on how Americans feel about raising taxes no wealthy”; one website I’m SURE you will trust is FoxNews.com – check out Nov 7th article on Exit Polls. One thing you said does match how Americans feel right now. The deficit is just not on the top priority list. The feelings are that the increased tax revenue should be used to address sequestration issues, certain tax issues (fixing ATM, extending certain tax credits) and for targeted investment in jobs bill, including infrastructure, research and education. I am so excited about the next few years; IF Congress and the President can make a “deal” on just some of his proposed agenda, that, along with the slowly increasing economic growth already predicted, will really make ALL economic numbers look better each year. IF he got reelected with the economy where it is now, in 2016 when EVERY economic indicator will be MUCH better, then whoever the Democratic candidate is (please, please, be Hillary?!) should trounce whichever wing of the Republican Party survives the coming intra-party bloodbath (aka . . . Republican Party soul searching).

  38. Max Planck

    Ask yourselves:
    What kind of country do you want?

    1) http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/09/papa-johns-obamacare-john-schnatter_n_2104202.html

    Now go to 2) https://twitter.com/PatrickH63/status/267265563473100803/photo/1

    and see 3) http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/11/09/who_lost_the_bain_issue_romney.html

    and 4) http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2012/11/09/robert_murray_is_history_s_greatest_monster.html

    It’s called a “social contract” folks. And no, you’re never really QUITE on your own no matter what you think.

    All trees get blown around by the same wind.

  39. Tom Messner

    Funny story, but Koch was not defeated for Mayor in 1989. He stepped down after three terms and Dinkins became Mayor.

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