The Ashkenazim of India
AEIdeas
Over at The American, Lazar Berman has a fascinating story about the high proportion of Jewish Nobel Prize winners in the sciences, a subject that has also been written about by AEI’s Charles Murray. In passing, Berman mentions how, relative to its population of 1.1 billion people, India has produced few Nobelists—between six and eight depending on how you count.
In itself, this is hardly surprising for a poor country yet to achieve universal literacy. Drill down further, however, and you come upon an obscure factoid mentioned by the historian Patrick French in his book India: A Portrait. Three of the four Indians or persons of Indian origin who have won a science Nobel come from a community said to number under 2 million people—Brahmins from Tamil Nadu. They include C. V. Raman (physics, 1930), Subrahmanyan Chandrasekar (physics, 1983), and Venkatraman Ramakrishnan (chemistry, 2009). The odd man out: Punjab-born Hargobind Khorana, who won a Nobel for medicine in 1968. The tiny Tamil Brahmin community also accounts for Viswanathan Anand, India’s only world chess champion, and the mathematical genius Srinivasa Ramanujan.
Needless to say, there are perfectly reasonable non-genetic explanations that can explain this peculiar preponderance. For one, Brahmin priests have a tradition of literacy that goes back to antiquity. For much of recorded history, they more or less monopolized traditional education, which gave them, and their descendants, a big leg up when Indians took to modern education under the British. But this still doesn’t explain why only Tamil Brahmins, and not their Bengali, Maharashtrian, or Uttar Pradesh counterparts, stand out in this manner.
In India, public discussion of this subject is more or less verboten. Caste is a touchy subject, and any such debate would likely devolve quickly into an exercise in caste chauvinism and name calling. Nonetheless, maybe it’s time for scientists to study the over-achieving Tamil Brahmin community with a view towards determining how much of its success in math, music, and science can be credited to nurture and how much to nature. Until then, it’s intriguing to think of Tamil Brahmins as the Ashkenazim of India.
Apart from an ancient tradition of literacy, I believe that the Brahmins from TN region were also among the first to embrace the English Education system. Their Bengali counterparts did too, but I believe they had a culture which encourages liberal arts more. The other major bastion of English power which produced many lawyers and legislators during the British rule was the Gujarat-Mumbai region.
Just my perspective.
This line of thinking is not new to any “tambram” – it has been discussed amongst ourselves ad nauseum. One definitive common factor in both communities – that of nurturing habits and a discipline that programs a child for success. Rising early, a dedicated adherence to a daily routine which in turn includes time for cultural activities like music, time for math, time for study and time for reading, etc. One can never know enough. If there is time for play in the midst of this; most moms will frown suspiciously and pore over their carefully drawn up time tables analyzing the slip-up in earnest, with an eye to making urgent amends! I jest of course; but, only just!
Aside – A more ethnically appropriate connotation for ‘Tambram’ in the context of this article and that of Mr. French’s book term is, Tamil Iyers.
A T-B friend had an interesting take when I sent the link of this blog to her. She said for her Maths was the ultimate religion : the intersection of science and religion, and that definitely comes from generations of ingrained ( brainwashing?) family values – even to the point of believing in the connection between eating okra and improving your math ability 🙂
Because the instinctive aversion to risk is high, the community focussed on higher education in the belief that this could mitigate risk.
The connection with the Ashkenazim is a good one, because the Jews got into intellectual related activities, because they were denied access to regular business – so they got into trades, where they could form close groups – money lending, gemstones etc and where they did not need bank access to capital.
That is where the tam brahm connection ends – the tambrahm rarely had access to capital to set up businesses in the past – most of the community was really not “well off” (barring some business families) and there is no culture of helping within the community – it is each for himself – which is why the sciences came as a saviour – you needed nothing else but your own intellectual abilities, to get past the gates of good colleges in the USA .
Chandrasekar and Venkatraman had written that they had the benefit of doing research abroad –
USA with the latest equipment. Raman was exceptional. India is already stand divided by caste.
now, the politicians will start a campaign – brahmins are dominating the noble prize. it should be curbed. it is funny Dhume is wasting time in finding caste-connections to nobel laureates.l
Yes, it is surprising how much caste-mindedness there is especially in the south and even among the urban elites. Maybe that fuels and emphasizes the Tam Brahm trend. That said, most Tam Brahm friends place high value on education and music etc.
These days though this trend towards achieving is with most parents. I do not thing any caste sure trend is there esp. in competitive exams–IITs, IIMs, or say the school toppers. Showing that the modern middle class is changing.
The son of late President S. Radhakrishnan wrote that his grand mother was a loose women. Many Tamil Brahmins were fathered by french during their occupation before Robert Clive defeated them. You see many Iyengars have light skin and bluish eyes. This may be the reason why non Tamil Brahmins are not as smart as Tamil Brahmins.
P.S.R
First off, Tamil Brahmins are considerably darker-skinned than Northern Indian Brahmins, and genetic studies show that Tamil Brahmins have less non-indigenous ancestry than any other group of Brahmins.
Secondly, how in the world would mixing with a bunch of French colonists make the Tamil Brahmins smarter? Tamil Brahmins are much smarter than the French (or any other group of Europeans, except maybe Ashkenazi Jews) on average.
You seem to me to be an Indian with a slave mentality. Perhaps you should start taking pride in the successes of your own people and stop worshipping “light-skinned, bluish-eyed” Europeans. Do you have any idea how pathetic you sound?
What bunkum! UP and Bihar Brahmins are as dark or white as Tamil Brahmins. All you need to do is travel to Benaras or Amthura and see the Pandas and Goswamis, Mishras or Chaturvdeis. Sorry to poke you int eh eye but most North Indian Brahmins are not exactly Nordic Europeans.
I would rather be a Tambrahm than any other Brahmin in India
Typical DMK/ DK trash. People of the gutter trying to put down others. You guys can’t contribute anything positive to society. but only loot the people in the name of social justice. Tamil Brahmins don’t have any recent blood. ANy European dscent would be only in the Christians and non Brahmins whose woemn were the keeps of the BRitish, French and Portuguese
I am not getting into attributing any genetic praise for the intelligence to foreign mix up. It was always there even before the colonial rule. But, it is a true fact that a section of Mamis in Srirangam carried Clive clan’s blood and that of Mysore carried Dupleix clan’s blood. That has got nothing to do with their brains. But, you can vividly distinguish this group in their european appearance. Not just being fair skinned. There are many tambrahms who are fair skinned. But this mysore and srirangam groups are very british and french in appearance !! In our own Tambrahm groups we used to jocularly ask when we see a typical European looking Tambrahm , whether they are C-Group from Srirangam or D-Group from Mysore !! It is worth doing DNA/ Anthropological study specific to this group.
>It is worth doing DNA/ Anthropological study specific
>to this group.
Why don’t you do that study and report with empirical data, findings? That would serve better than spreading your racist, bigoted conjectures around.
Why cannot you talk on how badly Tamil Brahmins ruined other people in tamilnadu. Many brains in india have a good talent if they get a good education and conducive atmosphere. Today tamil nadu has well developed/well educated state because none these Indian ashkenazi species existing there. Nobel prize is nothing compared to if one treats human as human, which Tamil Brahmins have never done.
Dear Sree,
There was institutionalized ill-treatment of the low-caste majority by Brahmins (and by other high castes too) aided by the British – up until Bharathiyar times. There is no doubt about this.
But modern-day Brahmins like myself have a huge sense of regret about this. I carry this chip on my shoulder every day. In the streets, in public, we try harder to blend in. You will notice that over the past 2-3 generations, Brahmins esp from Chennai don’t speak ‘Tam-Brahm’-like Tamil anymore.
You also cannot deny that reparations for the same have been carried out via the Dravidian parties, post-Periyaar. People like me have had to fend for myself – I worked hard for my TNSCE, entrance exams and scored in the top 1%, only to watch genuinely priveleged ‘Non-Brahmins’, from more well-off families, take Engineering seats that would’ve gone to me, despite their scoring far lower. It’s OK – we take this as penance – our ancestors wronged many peoples over centuries, and the price we pay now is relatively more dignified.
Never forget that we are as proud of our Tamil heritage as you might be. Do not slander or deride us. We are a part and parcel of Tamil Nadu.
even my bother had to go through this discrimination due to caste reservation and he missed out the seat for Computer Engineering in VJTI Mumbai.
But now alls fine. He is doing good and well settled abroad and the Sc candidate though computer engg doing some low paid job. After all talent cannot be suppressed by reservation. We Aryans gave the India their civilization
It may be absurd but there are some similarities. Tamil Brahmins unlike Brahmins elsewhere in India clung to their traditions as much as possible even while emerging into the modern world, English education, cities etc . I’m speaking of the late 19th century. In this sense, Tamil novels of the period and of the early 20th century read socially similar to those by Isaac Bashevis SInger who wrote of the Jewish community in Poland.
The non Brahmin communities simply did not have the same opportunities for education or the same interest in education (especially the landowning and mercantile communities) that the Brahmin communities had.
But I think today there’s hardly any difference. Most engineering and medical colleges as well as research establishments have their top achievers among all sections of society. Nothing to beat sustained opportunity and motivation to bring out the best.
I feel glad when I see village boys (and hopefully girls) from Bihar get into IIT and also top the entrance exam. Most of these people are not Brahmins.
What bunkum!
Where do the Telugu Brahmins come in all of this I wonder?
leave nobel prizewhich is a little too rare and difficult.
there are almost 16 out of 50 or so ‘royal society members'(FRS) given for exceptional acience/maths work by british science academy of indiaare the tamil
iyers and iyengars. difficult to comprehend. but they are facts.
idiot!! if you can mention anand, then please mention bengali scientist Acharya J C Bose who invented the radio, Satyendranath Bose after whose name the ‘boson’ particle (God particle) has been coined. You should also mention P C Mahananabish, a great mathematician and founder of Indian Statistical Institute. Everybody knows that Rabindranath Tagore was NOT ONLY the first Indian to get Nobel BUT ALSO the first ASIAN!!! so there!!!
have you heard of Dr Subhash Mukherjee? The doctor who invented IVF technique back in 1978? I may mention that there was another doc who came up with IVF technique too in the same year and was eventually awarded the Nobel for medicine. Due to lack of patronage from medical fraternity Dr Mukherjee lost it to his rival and eventually committed suicide in 1981.
Hi,
Please don’t create ethnic and caste tensions using improper research. Let us research in detail:
Ethnic aspect (Tamil)
Nobel prize is limited to a few disciplines. There are several other Indians, who have made significant contributions to different scientific and mathematical disciplines. Since you mentioned Bengalis, let me name a few:
* Jagadish babu demonstrated use of radio waves two years before Marconi’s wireless signalling experiment (IEEE has officially named him one of the fathers of radio science). He didn’t patent his radio work, so he lost out. He was also a pioneer who scientifically proved that plants were living beings not very different from animals. Jagdish Babu also _almost_ discovered many other concepts, but did not have enough funding and facilities to puruse them (for example, see the writings of Nobel Laureate Nevill Mott – he has mentioned that Bose had anticipated the existence of P-type and N-type semiconductors 60 years ahead of time).
* Bhai Satyendra Nath Bose provided the foundation of quantum mechanics (an entire category of particles “Boson” is named after him). Three Nobel Prizes have been awarded to people whose work is directly based on his research. Unfortunately, during his time, he was a low-profile person from a third-world colony, and was not awarded one himself.
* Prasanta da who is known for Mahalanobis distance (there is Nobel prize for statistics)
* Meghnad kaka who developed the Saha equation used to describe chemical and physical conditions in stars. He was nominated for the Nobel Prize in Physics four times 1930, 1937, 1939 and 1940.
There are many more, but I don’t have time to list them.
Caste aspect (Brahmin)
Historically, the Indian castes were formed on the basis of occupation. Priests, writers, researchers, scientists, teachers – all these people were Brahmins by definition. Therefore, saying that “Only Brahmins have won a Nobel prize for Science” is like saying “Only Scientists have won a Nobel Prize for science”.
You will find that historically, prominent Indians in a particular field have hailed from a caste whose occupation is associated with that field. For example, Rajputs soldiers and Agrawal businessmen.
These things have been changing slowly and Indians are trying to excel in different fields irrespective of their castes. So, please, instead of reinforcing historically outdated stereotypes, please rise above small identities and help in nation building.
Thank you,
Nagababa
STFU you casteist pig
And the first Indian in space was a Tambrahm! Oh wait….
First Bengali brahmins with same population had already produced 3 Nobel prize worth work.Tagore and Amartya Sen have already won and Subhash mukherjee who died in 1981,otherwise he should have won in 2010.
But tamil Brahmins have won with American citizenship(shortcut way) and other from Iacs,Calcutta.why they can’t win from Tamil Nadu?
One of all time great inventor and polymath Jc Bose did not want to win any award and patent and Satyendra Bose’s work has already produced 12 Nobel prize winners after his death and he is regarded one of all time gratest top 25 by various books and rankings-more importantly they all worked in Bengal.but Boses are all Kayastha,not Brahmin.
Ever heard of Sourya Ray-a 16 year old bengali boy from kolkata who has recently solved 2 unique puzzles of Newton set 350 years ago and has been hailed as a schoolboy genius all over the world.
Ashok Sen has won the inaugural milner prize-the biggest prize in world of science today-he is also a Bengli.
Rvihnkr,Nora,Bikram Ghose,dhruva Ghose have already won 17 grammy awards vs 2 Tamil awards.
Ever heard of Satyajit Ray-one of top 10 greatest director of all time?
In Usa with 2% population among indian community Bengali have won 2 pulitzer vs 0 Tamil.
The first person outside Europe to win royal society plaque for chemistry P.C Ray is also Bengali.
And there are many I can boast but that’s probably not required here.
No one’s arguing that Bengalis aren’t accomplished. Calm down. Your people are great as well. Culturally, however, Tamil Brahmins have more similarity to Ashkenazim. Whether that’s good or bad is for you to decide privately.
Ashkenazi have won 178 Nobel from 11.2 million population while Tamil Brahmin with 3 million population have won 3 Nobel.Now if you have double digit Iq then you probably understand the difference between Ashkenazi and Tamil Brahmin.
Bengali have produced many great inventors and engineers just like Euro whites; then we can say elite upper caste Bengali are basically white.
Here is the list-J.C Bose,one of the greatest inventor of all time.
Subhas Mukhopadhya-IVF pioneer.
Amar Gopal Bose,Mani Bhowmick and several others.
Even Bangladesh has produced Fazlur Khan,the greatest structural engineer of all time and Jawed Karim-one of the inventor of you tube and several other computer technologies.
Just like white Bengalis are very inventive in nature.
Jewish have won over 200 Nobel with 4 times population of Tamil Brahmin.They have produced luminaries like Einstein,Feynman etc.Can you find any Tamil Brahmin with same quality?And who has told you Ramanujan is the greatest of 20th century Mathematician?He does not figure in top 50 greatest mathematician of all time.Take Satyendra Bose_his name is immortalized in Physics literature with every field including God particle.
Since I’m Brahmin I’m happy with success of any Brahmin but my reply was specific to your challenge towards Bengali Brahmin.The difference is 3 Bengali Brahmin/Vaidya-Brahmin working in Bengal(i.e 3rd world) produced Nobel worthy work but DR.Mukopadhya had a tragic death due to bastard politician of Bengal and India otherwise he would have won it from Kolkata in 2010.
Now I hope you understand the difference between working in 1st world and 3rd world…and since you are using the word indian then you can not put Chandra,Khorana,Venky in that list because they won with American citizenship.
According to Amartya sen, in order to win Nobel prize with Indian citizenship “you have to be 10 times more qualified than your western/Jew counterpart”.
Good bye
Actually apart from Kolkata,the capital of Bengal India has not produced any Nobel laureate.Raman won from IACS,Kolkata established by a Bengali and khorna,chndra and venky are American citizen.Kolkata in 4 different category has won Nobel first in Asia and there are two persons whose work have won Nobel after their death.But Bengali polymath and inventor JC Bose alone has contributed more in world of science than all your Nobel laureate added together.Similarly Bengali Physicist Satyendra Bose’s work has produced 10 Nobel laureates so far.So first you produce a single Nobel laureate working in India then start talking otherwise be a low 82 IQ dumb Indian.But Bengali Hindu and Anglo Indian Of Bengal have produced more luminaries than many first world’s city.
Fist of all, no one’s bashing Bengal, so your bashing of the rest of India is actually quite unwarranted. Last time I checked Kolkata was a city located in India. Moreover, the ethnic composition of Bengal is really not that different from that of the rest of mainland India. Finally, Kolkata itself was given a HUGE leg over the rest of India due to the immense amount of resources poured into it by the British Raj (former capital, no?). Finally, saying that Bengalis aren’t Indian is about as logical as saying Tamils aren’t Indian. Actually, it’s more illogical, considering that the Tamil homeland straddles a more geographically disparate area than that of the Bengalis (Tamils are native to Sri Lanka, Southern India, and Malaysia, to which they first moved during the reign of the Chola Empire).
On another note, the IQ of Bengal (that is, WB and Bangladesh) is in all likelihood about as low as the national IQ of India. Sorry to break it to you. And maybe you’ve noticed, (but probably not), but Kolkata isn’t exactly an industrial haven, or even an intellectual haven these days, is it? WB and Bangladesh are both on the whole more impoverished than your average Southern Indian state, and definitely more impoverished than TN, which has embraced both a low fertility rate (yes, that’s a good thing), relatively good HDI, and other things that are indicators of a more developed state relative to Northern states, including WB, and the nation of Bangladesh. Kolkata today is a second thought — not an important center of knowledge. And the people to blame are Bengalis and only Bengalis. So much for “high IQ”.
Oh, and you have heard of Ramanujam (Iyengar) right? The 20th Century’s greatest mathematical genius, the majority of whose work stems from his years in India?
Apart from the modern era’s own luminaries, the past has shown that Tamil Brahmins from the Palakkad region (in Kerala) also excelled at mathematics. Look up the Kerala School of Astronomy, and see how the findings of people like Madhava of Sangamagrama (who was the pioneer of the infinite series, some 200 years before Leibniz) stack against whatever the heck your ancestors were doing under the Sultan of Bengal at the time. Now conflate history and the present for a broader picture. Clearly, the Tamil Brahmins have had an edge in the pursuit of knowledge.
Moving on, what you’re saying is essentially a straw man argument. You’re claiming that the Indians who didn’t stay in India to do their research are somehow inferior to those who stayed in India. At this point, I’m debating on whether to call you a moron or an idiot. You see here’s the deal: tell me, why didn’t the Americans who worked with these Tamil Brahmins earn the Nobel Prize? Why is it that those who had active access to these resources in the first world not win the same Nobel Prize? It’s a result of the inherent intelligence and cultural upbringing of the people who won them. There is no superiority to having won a prize in India as opposed to winning one after having done work in a foreign land. I would tell you to get that through your head, but I fear that that is too much to ask. Thanks, and have a good day I suppose.
Actually most of the famous Bengali are from East Bengal or current day Bangladesh.J.C Bose,Saha,Satyajit Ray,Amartya Sen,Sir Partha Dasgupta or sitarist Ravishankar all are from eastern Bengal who were far away from Kolkata.In last 14 years 3 Bengali working in Bengal have produced Nobel worth work.One is A.Sen who won in welfare economics ,another one is Bangladeshi Muhammad yunus who won for Microcredit and another one is Dr.Subhas mukhopadhya who created most sophisticated test tube baby of the world in 1978 at Kolkata but his death in 1981 certainly cost him 2010 Nobel in medicine.
at Harvard the first Indian to win Nobel laureate signature award is also Bengali A.Bannerjee.
Why Indian can not produce a single Nobel or world class inventor working in India.If we separate west Bengal out of India them India has exactly zero number Nobel prize from India.
In abroad Bengali Hindus with 2% population of total Indian community routinely outperform rest of the 98% Indian.Why indsian even after migrating to west can not produce an inventor like J.C Bose or a Physicist like Satyendra Bose? The answer is vice like grip of failed ideology and delusional mindset.
First you produce a Nobel prize working in your home using your own resource then come to talk with me otherwise One J.C Bose has contributed more to world of science than all other Indian scientist together.
But again you are a very low IQ dumb Indian who can not understand a simple fact which even a 5 year old kid can comprehend.
Now read this blog-Indian/Chinese Iq puzzle by John JayRay
British established 20 educational institute all over India but because of intelligent Bengali only renaissance happened in Bengal.Don’t worry India will take another 1000 years to achieve what West Bengal has achieved.
Bengali Hindu?Christian has highest literacy in South Asia with 92.38% while India has recorded literacy only 76.3%.south Indian Hindu have literacy less than 85% even in 2012.
So if you talk about IQ(I really believe Mr.Dhume has got IQ less than most stupid Bengali of Kolkata) Bengali Hindu will have IQ at least 10-15 points higher than average of India.
Bangladesh or Muslim of Wb has very poor literacy hence their IQ will be less than 80.
Talking about kolkata or Wb it has been spoiled by 30% Muslim and another 25% non Bengali Hindu/Nepalese.
If we throw these 55% backward people then with 2030 we will make west Bengal a 1st world country but your India/south India will forever remain a 3rd world shit hole.
When Nalanda university of ancient Bengal was on it’s peak and Aryabhata was working here you people were still living in dark age and birth of Mathematics took place here in our ancient Bengal9with invention of zero and other Mathematics/Astronomy).
J.C Bose in September 2012 has been awarded by IEEE president for his works on “wireless communication,polarizer,de-polarizer,microwave optics etc” which has changed the world of communication/telecommunication.
Even the computer which we are using today,most of it’s diode,microwave use were invented by Bengali polymath Sir Bose.
According to British Nobel laureate Sir Nevil Mott”J.C Bose was atleast 60 years ahed of his time.Infact he may well first anticipated the use of p-type and n-type semiconductor”.
Bose become one of the 3 Asian and thus Kolkata becomes one of the 3 city in the world to win this award.
watch schindler’s list .this article may lead us to the same fate for world war 3
This has been discussed already in several other blog
@Shriram
actually my reply was to you and yeah it will lead India to next Kurushektra war(not world war).
While the intellectual proclivities of bengalies are not in doubt, their achievements are mainly in the hot research areas of their times. Morever, the population of bengali forward castes is around 15% of their area coming to around 15 million compared to only 2.4 million of tamil brahmins. They had far superior resources and far longer contact with the british than tb’s. So the comparisons itself are flawed. Even then, apart from the tall poppies, several have done ground breaking work like krishnan, m.s.mani,gnr, minakshisundaram etc. The work that these people did are in a wide range of scientific subjects and they worked alone, unlike bengalis who had their networks to prop them up. Hundreds of such examples are available where tamil b’s have worked to advance knowledge and strengthen the country.
Another major area of failure of the Bengali elites is in the retention of their culture and politics. The building of India building partition was essentially done by Gandhi ,Patel, menon and a couple of Tamil Brahmins in crucial positions in the british beaurocracy. The constitution of India was also had a major chunk written by iyers and iyengars. Coming to culture, Bengalis have lost all their Hindu traditions, except the westernized academic study of some traditions in logic and saktism. All these traditions are alive in South India and specifically Tamil Nadu. The loss of culture will invariably lead to the loss of lands, women and later lives of the inhabitants. Even now we see the clout muslims weild in wb. As for music we have a separate system of our own and even though ravi shankar & co are good, they dont come up to the best like the marathi and goan musicians.
Finally, for their own survival, Bengali elites should give up their racism and hubris,and learn that there are good people everywhere, and we must respect each other if we are to survive.
@Rahul you are partly right because Bengali pure Brahmin are less than 2 million and they have not migrated to western counties in numbers.Tam Brahmin has not achieved anything from TN(except Ramanujan who got recognization once Hardy took him at Cambridge).Bengali Brahmin created a renaissance in their land with all modern intellectuals who changed the Hindu society forever(such as Rammohan Roy or vidyasagar and even the women folks have done pretty well in western countries such as jhumpa Lahiri,Gayetri Chakraborty spivak,Bharati Mukherjee,Arundhuti Roy).Apart from Brahmin there are 1-1.5 million vaidya Brahmin and slightly higher kayastha community…but there are few names outside these group such as Astrophysicist Meghnad saha but in recent years Bengali Hindu with only 1-2% population in USA are routinely outperforming rest of Indian in field of inventions but in breakthrough i think Tam Brahmins are doing equally well.in literature,music and other artistic field Bengalis are not only best in India but they are one of the best in the entire world.
Also Tamil Nadu was a French colony for good time still they could not achieve anything from their home.Even after British left India Bengalis have produced and routinely producing luminaries which 1.2 billion Indian can not produce even in next 1000 years.Regarding music we don’t give a damn to worthless Hindi songs or any of Marathi or Goan music.
But Sampan aamar bhai, you will agree that we bengalis can’t really seem to appreciate each others success.
A Brahmin is a Brahmin. Our mother tongue is Sanskrit and not Tamil or Bengali. We are Sanatanis. There are vested interests that wants us to see divided. We should be proud of each others achievements.
You are not Bengali but probably a Tamil Brahmin but See the article is written by a Tamil Brahmin,not by a Bengali…so before accusing me you should accuse the person who started it.BTW South Indian languages are not associated with Sanskrit becuse all dravidian languages have come from Tamil (Telgu and Kannda have some Sanskrit influence though) but Hindi,Bengali ,Punjabi etc are all Indo-European languages and have more similarities with Sanskrit than Dravidian.
Yes you are right Brahmin all over India should keep their heritage and as I said earlier I will be happy in achievements of any Brahmin/Indian but many Indian due to their jealousy and inferiority complex bash on Bengali people(well I have no problem if you bash on illegal Bangladeshi who are making WB and Assam as garbage or hell) which should be stopped otherwise this fight will continue.
Also I guess you are most probably non Tamil but other Indian Brahmin or may be a Bengali Brahmin but a woman (who is probably married with any other Indian Brahmin that’s why you are playing this Brahmin card) otherwise how one can make such idiotic comments that all Brahmins are same because Bengali,Tamil,Kashmiri etc are all different ethnicity…btw this article or any research related to IQ,intelligence are not vested interest because it’s true that apart from Bengali and Tamil Brahmins no other Indian Brahmin have achieved anything yet.
And let me tell you that I appreciate all people who are superior than me or that of my quality such as white,Jew,Japanese,Chinese or some Latin but I don’t give a crap about India who are far inferior than us(except Tamil Brahmin who are pretty smart).
Now go and cure your knowledge and don’t come to mess with your superior master if you are any Indian(or any Bengali Brahmin female!)
You are a typical Indian liar because you are not Bengali Brahmin since Bengali Brahmin has R1a1, R2a or H1; not R1a as you have mentioned…hence you are not even a Bengali.
Also our success story is highlighted by foreigners,not by shameless people of India who loves to highlight themselves in their own forum.
Read this one-Kaushik Basu the latest Bengali to dominate world of Economics,Tom Wright on Wall street journal.
In India Bengali Seems to regain their glory as Intellectuals-Los Angeles Times-2nd September,2012
Even Hillary Clinton has accepted the contributions of Bengali people while wishing for Bengali New year.
So unlike other Indian Like the author here We don’t have to brag for ourselves,but other speak for us.
You can also read this one-Autobiography of an unknown Indian by Bengali Nirad C. Chaudhuri-It’s introduction part written by guardian journalist IAN JACK(available on PDF format).
@a-R1na
Mate I guess you may be the same guy who was posting in the blog Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle With the name To observer/great,if that’s the case then I take my word’s back but your comments above was quite delusional.
Language cannot be ethicity or tribe.
Bengali is spoken by many tribes in bengal. Do you mean to say they all belong to the same race.
I am an Arya and always will be Arya becuase my parents named me Arya Mukherjee.
Brahmins are just one of the Castes of the Aryan tribe which includes Kshatriyas, Rajputs, Jats, Gujjars etc
Could not agree with you because a Kashmiri and a Bengali Brahmin are certainly not from same clan.North India is filled with full of Aryan people(which means even lower caste jat have Aryan race) while in South India all are dravidians hence even Brahmins are predominantly dark brown(although some Iyer or Iyenger like Anand look like Bengali).
Bengali Brahmins migrated to Bengal from ancient Indian capital Konouj(or even Kayastha) which means all our ancestors are from there(Tagore’s family was also from Konouj as same is true with Satyajit Ray or Physician Subhas Mukherjee).So Brahmins are not same and if you don’t know the IQ of Bengali Brahmins (average with half standard deviation) vary among 110-122 as we Kulin Brahmins(well my ancestors had surname Ganguly) of Bengal have upper limit of IQ 122 which is lot higher than Ashkenazi.BTW 2 most famous pure living Bengali Brahmins are Anandamohan Chakraborty,one of the greatest biologist of 20th century who is more famous for his epic patent win and another one is Anirban Banerjee who Nobel laureate signature award in 2007 in field of Chemistry and there are few inventors o here in USA but the number of highest patents is only 7 who is only 29 year old.
But sorry for mistakenly assuming you as a female because from your name you seem like a male.Also what SAMBIT has said regarding gene is actually correct because Wikipedia is also showing the same.
@Sampan-You were right this is a female but using a fake identity that’s why this bigot is totally unaware of ethnicity or racial mixture or don’t even know the proper DNA of herself(as it’s R1a1)…or as you said it’s probably married with any non Bengali Brahmin or so…Just ignore her and don’t give a damn to this “INFERIOR” group of people and as you said we should only talk with people who belong to our level such as Some elite Euro white countries,Japanese or our superior group like Ashkenazi Jewish.
@Sampan OR it may be a non Bengali female who is married with Bengali Brahmin or probably a non Bengali who knows the Bengali language but so ashamed to even disclose her identity.
@Sampan Chakraborty
Cholo kothai to aamra agree kori
“Yes you are right Brahmin all over India should keep their heritage and as I said earlier I will be happy in achievements of any Brahmin/Indian but many Indian due to their jealousy and inferiority complex bash on Bengali people(well I have no problem if you bash on illegal Bangladeshi who are making WB and Assam as garbage or hell) which should be stopped”
Bengali Hindus may be smart because they have produced intellectuals but their politicians are worst Wimp who have made West Bengal to mini Bangladesh.If WB or Assam don’t get rid of this problem within 20 years Hindus will have to die or convert to Islam.
Well Bengali hall of fame american Amar Gopal Bose died but we have two other hall of fame inventors still alive-A.Chakraborty,Bedabrata Pain and we have more than 120 Us patents/10000 population.
Tamil Brahmin-0 Hall of fame inventor,even rest of India has not produced any American Hall of fame inventor.
To SAMPAN AND SAMBIT-You were right because R1Na is Bengali Brahmin female who is married with non Bengali.
Her name must be Samarpita Mukherjee Sarma who posted in that page of Preeoccupied 50 reasons not to marry Bengali…Well any intelligent Bengali will not marry any Indian or even any Bengali.They might marry foreigners or may be they will remain life long bachelor as many American are also not getting married in these days.
Well Tam Brahmin compares them with Ashkenazi,But Bengali Brahmin-Baidya say they have produced 5-10 times more laurels in terms of population than AShkenazi Jew.10,00 population in US has produced so many names,so if you change it mathematically to 7 million like Ashkenazi,then Bengali Brahmin-Baidya_brahmin have at least 10 times more achievements than Ashkenazi.
So Ashkenazi Jew are far inferior than us Bengali Brahmin-Baidya Brahmin.
You have no source or link as you are a liar. You should compare the Brahmins of India (50-55 millions) with the Jews, not the so called ones in the US. As we know the Indian data in patents the Brahmins are far worse.
Oh dear lord. Look at the comments. I am neither bong nor tam bram however I must comment for my bengali friends that there is a difference between jealousy and envy
Hey Marathis have produced emperor Shivaji who regularly raided the islamic wastelands of bengal for all of Bengal’s intellectual achievements until they achieve in war like sikhs marathas gurkhas etc they can’t do shit
My tam bram brothers:
Bengalis have equal number of Nobel Prizes and Oscars and most are BONG BRAHMINS, I am surprised you lack in general knowledge …
Amartya Sen (economics)
Rabindranath Tagore (Literature)
Muhammad Yunus (peace)
Satyajit Roy (Chowdhury) Oscar
Ronal Ross and Mother Teresa another two Nobel winners did their research and work in cacutta.
70 percent of big anti-colonial leaders in India are from Bengali Brahmins and Kayasths and the rest from Maharashtra, Gujarat and Punjab… where are the Tamils in it ?
another news : ha ha ha for the Tam Brams this is a Bnegali Bram
Washington, Mar 27 (UNI) Scientist Anirban Banerjee, , has become the first Indian to receive Nobel Laureate Signature Award in Chemistry for his work on human DNA The honour conferred upon by the American Chemical Society (ACS) Chicago is one of the most prestigious awards in the world of science.
Read more at: http://news.oneindia.in/2007/03/27/anirban-banerjee-bags-nobel-laureate-award-for-his-work-on-dna-1175059124.html